Hot Liquid, follow-up non-contentious question

[Vara]

Let's say you make a run for France / Belgium etc. after a planned UK passage goes wrong.

What are the likely outcomes if you turn up in France with no paperwork on board, no passports, ID, etc etc. Will you be detained to the port, will you be allowed ashore for victulating, able to go for the train should you need to leave the boat for work and return a few weeks later?

On this side we may have to run to Ireland who are pretty lax and comfortable with UK flagged boats, as we are with them. But even with the Schengen Agreement it still appears likely you will not be ignored and checked in even in a friendly manner.

Surely this has happened, is there a kind of acceptance in place for this kind of situation, or have people landed all kinds of administration problems running for a Southerly port?

In my experience the French are pretty at good sorting out that sort of problem.

In case of Boulogne there is IIRC an honorary consul.

 

[awol]

Are you guys serious? If you have decided that your safest, most sensible course of action is to seek refuge in a French port, why would you even consider paperwork? Sort it out when you get there. It may be a total PITA but so what?

 

[Vara]

Are you guys serious? If you have decided that your safest, most sensible course of action is to seek refuge in a French port, why would you even consider paperwork? Sort it out when you get there. It may be a total PITA but so what?

Good point, well made.

But I suspect in Northern France it wouldn't be a great problem.

 

[Boomshanka]

I assume they (French and UK) could track you (radar and/or AIS) going along the UK coast, see the diversion, then add two and two with the actual weather data. Probably wouldn't do any harm to contact the CG with your diversion intention on the VHF, they might call ahead on your behalf? With the UK not being part of Schengen it might raise a few eyebrows, but not as many as lifting souls of a beached yacht on a lee shore.

 

[Twister_Ken]

OK, so I guess Dungeness isn't a great place to hide if I ever get caught out in silly conditions.

Had a look at Folkestone in the Channel Pilot and can't say I really fancy that either, but if the worst ever comes to the worst, at least I could paddle ashore into the waiting arms of an ambulance crew.

 

[westhinder]

Wouldn't fancy either the pier at Folkestone or the tuck in behind Dungeness, this is based on looking at them as I sailed past, haven't actually been in to test.

I still think Boulogne would have been an option if the decision was taken early enough, off Beachy Head say, but it would of course be dependent on the actual wind direction.

Agree with Cantata there is a pronounced "Strait" effect, and empirical observation would suggest it's most marked on the Northern coast, Calais side seems less prone.

My experience tells me the "Strait" effect is just as marked on the French side as you close Boulogne and you get a very awkward sea with the reflected waves off the Boulogne entrance.
But it all depends on the wind direction. I believe the wind on the day was more south than west and in that case the French coast may have been the better option, but crossing the shipping lanes with such waves on the beam is not something you would want to do.
I have been caught out crossing from Newhaven to Boulogne when a SW force 7 did not weaken as forecast but increased to a force 9 and we had to abandon the crossing, run off and eventually find shelter in Ramsgate. Folkestone and Dover were no options in these conditions.

 

[westhinder]

I assume they (French and UK) could track you (radar and/or AIS) going along the UK coast, see the diversion, then add two and two with the actual weather data. Probably wouldn't do any harm to contact the CG with your diversion intention on the VHF, they might call ahead on your behalf? With the UK not being part of Schengen it might raise a few eyebrows, but not as many as lifting souls of a beached yacht on a lee shore.

Quite right. Dover Coastguard and their counterparts at Cross Griz Nez very closely monitor all traffic in the Strait. They are very cooperative if you keep them posted. They even allowed friends of ours who had a serious problem to cross the TSS along the shortest route toward a harbour, ie not at right angles and kept the other traffic informed of their whereabouts.

 

[reginaldon]

OK, so I guess Dungeness isn't a great place to hide if I ever get caught out in silly conditions.

Had a look at Folkestone in the Channel Pilot and can't say I really fancy that either, but if the worst ever comes to the worst, at least I could paddle ashore into the waiting arms of an ambulance crew.

Definitely good shelter in the lee of the long harbour arm at Folkestone, altho' harbour is tidal.
Well it was good enough for the Cross Channel boats, however no shelter from the East.

PS When the Hengist went ashore in '87 it was because its freeboard was too great to resist the SW hurricane ( I was there when she grounded) this would not apply to HL

 

[Evadne]

OK, so I guess Dungeness isn't a great place to hide if I ever get caught out in silly conditions.

Had a look at Folkestone in the Channel Pilot and can't say I really fancy that either, but if the worst ever comes to the worst, at least I could paddle ashore into the waiting arms of an ambulance crew.

The worst I've ever had to be there in was a F6-7 (I think, it were a long time ago when I were a lot younger) but it may have been more W than SW. There was no problem with swell close in, but we did have other problems that weren't caused by the weather. The other reason for anchoring really close in is that you are in sand, rather than WW2 wreckage, or so the man in Dover informed me when I went to buy a new anchor the next day.

 

[Kukri]

The worst I've ever had to be there in was a F6-7 (I think, it were a long time ago when I were a lot younger) but it may have been more W than SW. There was no problem with swell close in, but we did have other problems that weren't caused by the weather. The other reason for anchoring really close in is that you are in sand, rather than WW2 wreckage, or so the man in Dover informed me when I went to buy a new anchor the next day.

Seems I was lucky!

 

[mjcoon]

Let's say you make a run for France / Belgium etc. after a planned UK passage goes wrong.

What are the likely outcomes if you turn up in France with no paperwork on board, no passports, ID, etc etc. Will you be detained to the port, will you be allowed ashore for victulating, able to go for the train should you need to leave the boat for work and return a few weeks later?

Given that you can be boarded any time to verify that are behaving legally, it is probably a Good Idea to have some basic identification paper-work on board at all times.

But I suppose you might be concerned about losing or damaging such paper-work during all the trips on which it is not needed...

Mike.

 

[Talulah]

Given that you can be boarded any time to verify that are behaving legally, it is probably a Good Idea to have some basic identification paper-work on board at all times.

But I suppose you might be concerned about losing or damaging such paper-work during all the trips on which it is not needed...

Mike.

I have been on boats across to France when for mechanical or weather reasons we have not been able to bring the boat back. On several occasions someone on board did not have their passports etc. French immigration at the Ferry Terminal had no issues allowing them to return. Just a quick couple of questions handled very politely.

 

[DogWatch]

Are you guys serious? If you have decided that your safest, most sensible course of action is to seek refuge in a French port, why would you even consider paperwork? Sort it out when you get there. It may be a total PITA but so what?

Are you suggesting I shouldn't ask the question?

I had not realised that on this forum I am not at home snug and warm typing from a comfortable chair, in fact right now I am in a life threatening situation in the Channel and should just concentrate on navigating my laptop to a safe haven...

Are you saying all northern EU authorities are abiding by sensible rules, such as red deisel, out of date flares etc etc.

Of course for my safety I would just sail in, to think otherwise makes you just another keyboard argumentative bore, I just wondered if the feeling of safety might quickly turn to angst as you are met with officialdom and treated as a ship with all that might entail.

Obviously, unlike you I wasn't born knowing everything.

 

[DogWatch]

I have been on boats across to France when for mechanical or weather reasons we have not been able to bring the boat back. On several occasions someone on board did not have their passports etc. French immigration at the Ferry Terminal had no issues allowing them to return. Just a quick couple of questions handled very politely.

Thank you, good to know.

 

[awol]

Are you suggesting I shouldn't ask the question?
I had not realised that on this forum I am not at home snug and warm typing from a comfortable chair, in fact right now I am in a life threatening situation in the Channel and should just concentrate on navigating my laptop to a safe haven...
Are you saying all northern EU authorities are abiding by sensible rules, such as red deisel, out of date flares etc etc.
Of course for my safety I would just sail in, to think otherwise makes you just another keyboard argumentative bore, I just wondered if the feeling of safety might quickly turn to angst as you are met with officialdom and treated as a ship with all that might entail.
Obviously, unlike you I wasn't born knowing everything.

Calm down dear!

On a thread that was discussing boltholes that were tenable in the area of the HL Pan Pan, your digression into bureaucratic niceties just struck me as a drift too far. However, may I suggest you carry your passport with you, now you have identified the problem , then you may not have to become too involved with officialdom or be forced to seek their discretion, should the occasion arise.

 

[Searush]

Calm down dear!

On a thread that was discussing boltholes that were tenable in the area of the HL Pan Pan, your digression into bureaucratic niceties just struck me as a drift too far. However, may I suggest you carry your passport with you, now you have identified the problem , then you may not have to become too involved with officialdom or be forced to seek their discretion, should the occasion arise.

Well actually there are a few good points there, like ood flares or red diesel that would get you a stonking fine in France or Holland respectively once your lack of papers had brought you to their unwelcome attention.

 

[awol]

Well actually there are a few good points there, like ood flares or red diesel that would get you a stonking fine in France or Holland respectively once your lack of papers had brought you to their unwelcome attention.

... and I believe some of them insist on speaking their own language and refuse to converse in English .

I now understand why so many boats are so scared that they stay within the Solent rather than risk the penalties of inadvertently going foreign. I believe the French also fine you for carrying dope, firearms, and South African wine.

But all this seems a long way from where refuge could have been found last Tuesday.

 

[DogWatch]

... and I believe some of them insist on speaking their own language and refuse to converse in English .

I now understand why so many boats are so scared that they stay within the Solent rather than risk the penalties of inadvertently going foreign. I believe the French also fine you for carrying dope, firearms, and South African wine.

But all this seems a long way from where refuge could have been found last Tuesday.

Why is this making you angry?

 

[awol]

Why is this making you angry?

The "smiley" is labelled "EEK!" on this forum and I assumed indicated shock/horror. It is certainly not the noise I make when angry. Another available emoticon is labelled "MAD" which I presume is mercan for angry rather than associated with mental illness..

 

[Tidewaiter2]

OOOOOOOoooooh...

The "smiley" is labelled "EEK!" on this forum and I assumed indicated shock/horror. It is certainly not the noise I make when angry. Another available emoticon is labelled "MAD" which I presume is mercan for angry rather than associated with mental illness..

....I dunno about dat on these forii, One has noticed a certain element posting from time to time with whom One would not like to share a night watch in the Doldrums?