Hot Liquid, follow-up non-contentious question

[Twister_Ken]

I asked the question a couple of times in the thread, but never got an answer (or maybe nobody knows)...

If finding oneself in a similar situation, how much shelter could be obtained by anchoring close-in to the east of Dungeness. I've done that in the past, (going west) but to avoid tide, not weather. Will the swell refract around the headland and make the anchorage untenable?

 

[GlennG]

The land is pretty flat there so whilst the sea may flatten, you'll still get the full force of the wind from the land -- better make sure you've good ground tackle. Shelter will be better from the west than south.

 

[Twister_Ken]

The land is pretty flat there so whilst the sea may flatten, you'll still get the full force of the wind from the land -- better make sure you've good ground tackle. Shelter will be better from the west than south.

Understood - but does the sea flatten out, or do the waves roll around?

 

[alant]

I asked the question a couple of times in the thread, but never got an answer (or maybe nobody knows)...

If finding oneself in a similar situation, how much shelter could be obtained by anchoring close-in to the east of Dungeness. I've done that in the past, (going west) but to avoid tide, not weather. Will the swell refract around the headland and make the anchorage untenable?

Not a lot.

Some years ago, on a similar trip - delivery with owner of a Hunter 27, with weather window & forecast F11 due, we considered tucking behind Dungeness to sort out a problem with headsail. It was then somewhere around F7+ & gusting & IMO was not a comfortable spot to dwell. We eventually got into Dover (west entrance) with v. strong tide flowing East & making entry 'interesting'.

Stuck in Dover for 2-3 days until F10/11 passed through & then left for Essex. Had previously considered missing Dover & trying Ramsgate, assuming some protection around the corner, but even land there seems flattish/bleak & similar lack of real protection as Dungeness for a smallish boat in those conditions.

 

[Cantata]

Well, it's been a refuge there for centuries but in a small boat I think you'd need to tuck in very close inshore.
I've done numerous trips along the UK side east along the Channel (but only one west, strangely!) and the 'Dover Strait effect' is always very obvious, and seems to begin when you reach Dungeness. The windspeed starts to ramp up, the cloud base lowers, the weather generally just worsens. I'd bargain for at least one extra Beaufort by the time you reach Dover, if not two.
Then as you clear beyond the South Foreland, the weather magically improves, quite weird really. All to do with the wind funneling through the Strait, I suppose.

 

[reginaldon]

I think there would have been better shelter in the lee of the Folkestone Harbour Arm.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I think there would have been better shelter in the lee of the Folkestone Harbour Arm.

An interesting thought. Unfortunately, and confusingly, my Almanac omits Folkestone completely. Are yotties not welcome?

 

[Kukri]

I've parked there for a nap during the flood tide, bound down Channel against more wind than we wanted (obviously, with a fair wind, one just buckets along over the wind over tide lumps).

Got a good kip, without much rolling.

You do need to tuck in really close to the beach, so I'd say it's something to do in daylight.

 

[Boomshanka]

As GlennG states, the land there is flatter than a flat thing, any appreciable blow from W/SW would come straight through I should think... also not sure of the seabed, lot's of gravel I seem to remember - not sure on how good the hold would be in those winds. If you look on Google Earth, some kind folk have posted photos of the area.

 

[reginaldon]

An interesting thought. Unfortunately, and confusingly, my Almanac omits Folkestone completely. Are yotties not welcome?

In winter there are moorings available in the harbour towards the railway line & bridge (most yachts lifted out) - rarely used, but of course it is tidal, however there certainly shelter from the West behind the long high stone pier.

 

[Searush]

My past experience of seeking "shelter" behind flat land or low promonteries is that they act like aerofoils & accelerate the wind at least one wind force, but the sea is generally flatter if you can get close enough (I have a shallow draught twin keeler) but waves do curl around headlands & islands & strike you beam on which can make a site untenable. But I do not know the channel that well to know if such conditions occur E of Dungeness.

 

[Vara]

Wouldn't fancy either the pier at Folkestone or the tuck in behind Dungeness, this is based on looking at them as I sailed past, haven't actually been in to test.

I still think Boulogne would have been an option if the decision was taken early enough, off Beachy Head say, but it would of course be dependent on the actual wind direction.

Agree with Cantata there is a pronounced "Strait" effect, and empirical observation would suggest it's most marked on the Northern coast, Calais side seems less prone.

 

[Kukri]

Dungess East Road apparently does do this, but I did not notice it when I used it to wait a tide. I expect its much worse with wind over tide. The trick is to get as close in as you can, about two miles north of the point. The beach shelves gradually. In my case as we were waiting a flood tide with a strong SW'ly we did not bother with the RYA approved refinements of reduction to soundings but chucked the hook over with a few feet under the keel and crawled into our pits.

 

[Sgeir]

My past experience of seeking "shelter" behind flat land or low promonteries is that they act like aerofoils & accelerate the wind at least one wind force................

Thanks. That's an interesting response, and I wonder if it is a factor at Arinagour, where Loch Eathearna runs from NW to SE towards the sea. We avoid anchoring or mooring there in a strong NW as it can be very unpleasant - the wind swoops over low lying land and can set up a surprising amount of chop as it hits the water.

 

[DaveS]

Thanks. That's an interesting response, and I wonder if it is a factor at Arinagour, where Loch Eathearna runs from NW to SE towards the sea. We avoid anchoring or mooring there in a strong NW as it can be very unpleasant - the wind swoops over low lying land and can set up a surprising amount of chop as it hits the water.

Something very similar happens in Loch Carbost in strong easterlies.

 

[DJE]

Dungess East Road apparently does do this, but I did not notice it when I used it to wait a tide. I expect its much worse with wind over tide. The trick is to get as close in as you can, about two miles north of the point. The beach shelves gradually. In my case as we were waiting a flood tide with a strong SW'ly we did not bother with the RYA approved refinements of reduction to soundings but chucked the hook over with a few feet under the keel and crawled into our pits.

Is Newhaven a viable option if it blows up hard from the South West?

 

[DogWatch]

I still think Boulogne would have been an option if the decision was taken early enough, off Beachy Head say, but it would of course be dependent on the actual wind direction.

Let's say you make a run for France / Belgium etc. after a planned UK passage goes wrong.

What are the likely outcomes if you turn up in France with no paperwork on board, no passports, ID, etc etc. Will you be detained to the port, will you be allowed ashore for victulating, able to go for the train should you need to leave the boat for work and return a few weeks later?

On this side we may have to run to Ireland who are pretty lax and comfortable with UK flagged boats, as we are with them. But even with the Schengen Agreement it still appears likely you will not be ignored and checked in even in a friendly manner.

Surely this has happened, is there a kind of acceptance in place for this kind of situation, or have people landed all kinds of administration problems running for a Southerly port?

 

[GlennG]

Is Newhaven a viable option if it blows up hard from the South West?

Yes. Newhaven's very good from this direction due to the long outer wall. It's not so good if the wind is strong from the south or south-east. I'd suggest that it's probably the best harbour along the south coast to get into in a blow from the west. As it's a deep-water port, you don't need to worry about depth, just getting in.

Massively better than Brighton which can be a real mare with the reflected waves, lack of depth and fairly tight entrance. Like Dover, when entering, sit down and hang on!

Eastbourne's shallow as the excellent RNLI report of the rescue in 2003 stresses.

Personally I'd choose Newhaven over Brighton or Eastbourne in a blow.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Lost count of the number of times I've been in French ports ( Normandy/Brittany rather than Pas de Calais) and never once been asked for paperwork or passports (although the boat's papers are always on the boat). Don't quite know how it would be if you had to leave the boat and come home by other means without ID, though.

 

[LittleSister]

Don't quite know how it would be if you had to leave the boat and come home by other means without ID, though.

Your problem then would probably be with the British authorities, not the French!