Hot dipped galvanized and zinc plated anchor chain

[Andrew_B]

I received 60m of new chain today which the supplier insists is hot dip galvanized but I am not so sure.
It just looks too shiny.
Can anyone tell me how to tell the difference between hot dipped and zinc plated.
All the galvanized chain I have bought in the past was matt grey.
The supplier insists it is fresh from the manufacturer which is why its shiny.
Any ideas?

Andrew

 

[ccscott49]

It can be shiny..ish and hotdipped, mine was. You should be able to see the difference, although hotdipped and spun chain can/has the look of zinc plated.

 

[Chrusty1]

Dip some of the end of it into a bucket of sea water, then hang it up to dry.....after a couple of weeks you should be able to tell, if zinc plated it will probably be brown......with rust.

 

[Andrew_B]

I should add that we are in Singapore so the chain is likely to be from China.
Is Chinese chain likely to be any more shiny than western stuff?

Thanks for any suggestions

Andrew

 

[NorthUp]

Chinese made chain or shackles are probably suitable for ballast. I certainly woudn't trust it to secure my boat. There is a reason its so cheap. Sorry.

 

[ccscott49]

If its chinese then its probably plated, never mind the quality of the "Steel" I wouldnt have it onboard, sorry.

 

[sarabande]

I'd get your supplier to have a lab test of the breaking strain at his expense. Should be easy to do in Singapore. Typically 8mm chain has a BS of between 3 and 4000 kg. (OK, I know it should be in KNewtons...)

Vyv_cox is the forumite with specific knowledge of the area

Shininess is not necessarily an indicator of weakness or strength, but can be a function of part of the galvanising process called "passivating". If chrome is used, it (especially Cr6) can be very bad for the environment if it's not recovered properly.

Not all Chinese manufacturers have poor quality and environmental controls.

Background info:
http://www.jacksonplating.co.uk/zinc-plating-passivate.php

 

[Andrew_B]

Whats everyone got against Chinese stuff.
Have you actually had a bad experience with Chinese made chain or shackles?
Have you ever seen Chinese chain or shackles?
Our last chain was Acco high test BBB which went rusty in 7 months and crumbled away inside 2 years which I would definately say was junk and that came from nowhere near China.

 

[sarabande]

agreed, but there are standards and test results which one cannot - in all conscience - ignore without thinking of the consequences.

OK, it's a bit of an advertising puff as well, but
http://www.mizumoto-mm.co.jp/PR/chain-pr.html

Snatch load deformation would be uppermost in my mind.

 

[NorthUp]

Yes- experience of chinese shackles and swivels. The shackle- I could feel the difference in weight between the chinese version and a european one, both more or less the same physical size. Swivel- I laughed when I picked it up off the shelf in the chandlers- the weld quality (not forged!) was so poor just looking at it. The chandler agreed!

 

[redskye]

I moor stuff for a living - I have had bad experiences of Chinese shackles sold "unknowingly" by a well known company. I had a batch of 30 one-inch shackles on which the threads fizzed away in 7 months - lucky that mousing held all the pins in otherwise could have been v. serious. Wouldn't trust other than tested and certified kit - there is too much at stake.

 

[Pye_End]

Seem to remember GMAC did not have such a high opinion, generally, of chain from the east. Worthwhile doing a search on some of his posts as he is/was a fount of knowledge on this area.

A quick look through gives a quote in a reply to somebody else:

'Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are looking at the wrong chain parameters nobody ever breaks anchor chain,


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I sorry but Rubbish. Chain failure is on a big upswing, noticeably so. To much cheap stuff from the east being sold as 'reliable'. Sadly most is being sold by people who don't know what they are selling.'

 

[sarabande]

I'd forgotten that someone posted the link to the Bradney chain booklet a while ago.

There are many pages of technical discussion and "best-practice", as well as details of chain types and specifications.

www.bradneychain.com/_pdf/Mooring-and-Anchoring-Leaflet.pdf

 

[craigsmith]

[ QUOTE ]
I received 60m of new chain today which the supplier insists is hot dip galvanized but I am not so sure.
It just looks too shiny.
Can anyone tell me how to tell the difference between hot dipped and zinc plated.
All the galvanized chain I have bought in the past was matt grey.
The supplier insists it is fresh from the manufacturer which is why its shiny.
Any ideas?

Andrew

[/ QUOTE ]
Andrew:
Shiny galvanizing is fine, this relates to the composition of the zinc bath - aluminium quantity has a big effect on how shiny the resulting coating is, as does the steel type being galvanized. It will dull over time, quickly if in use. Older chain, even if unused (e.g. old stock in a shop) will look a bit duller than recently galvanized product. It has little or no impact on the effectiveness of the coating, which is related instead to the thickness of the zinc and how the galvanizers handled the process including dipping.

Your doubts however may speak to more important matters since we're talking about anchor chain. All anchor chain should be certified (certificates should be available from the reseller on demand who will be familiar and open about this - if not, run a mile) and you should have no questions concerning origin, proofed strength, and finish. Country-of-origin (e.g. China) is not necessarily an issue, except that much suspect chain which is not adequately rated or certified does tend to originate from Asia. You are reliant on the reputation of the manufacturer, together with the recognized proofing and rating standards which are in place.

 

[wotayottie]

Used to run a galv plant. Dont worry about the shine - thats newness. Worry instead about the thickness of the zinc instead. It would be nice to be able to buy decent European chain from chandlers, chain which is made to a BS or Euronorm. But people mostly arent willing to pay the much higher price involved so its likely that your chain has a much thinner zinc coat and comes from somewhere dirty and distant. Ask to see manufacturers certs of conformity - bet they havent got any.

Got my last lot of chain from a maker in Wolverhampton, and 20 years later there's still no rust. I doubt whether they are still in business however, but we have only ourselves to blame for that. British obsession with cost rather than quality.

 

[Andrew_B]

Many thanks for all your suggestions and help.
Unfortunately out here its Asian chain or nothing and as the Acco chain I bought while passing the States isnt going to last a circumnavigation we are going to have to make do with chain from here.
I am still not sure how to tell hot dipped galvanised from zinc plated.
Can anyone tell me what to look for.
I have already had a suggestion from the boat next door to look for drip marks on the chain left over from the dipping process but my old chain doesnt have any drips on it either.

Andrew

 

[charles_reed]

[ QUOTE ]
Used to run a galv plant. Dont worry about the shine - thats newness. Worry instead about the thickness of the zinc instead. It would be nice to be able to buy decent European chain from chandlers, chain which is made to a BS or Euronorm. But people mostly arent willing to pay the much higher price involved so its likely that your chain has a much thinner zinc coat and comes from somewhere dirty and distant. Ask to see manufacturers certs of conformity - bet they havent got any.

Got my last lot of chain from a maker in Wolverhampton, and 20 years later there's still no rust. I doubt whether they are still in business however, but we have only ourselves to blame for that. British obsession with cost rather than quality.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad to re-assure you, there are at least 3 chainmakers alive and kicking in Cradeley Heath and, not only do they supply certificates as a matter of course, they'll even get an extra thickness of galvanising put on for anchor chain, if you ask.

The last 50m I bought, cost slightly less than the chandlers offer and weighed more for the same (allegedly) 8mm chain.

 

[ianabc]

Crosby shackles in North America, used by the fishing fleet although even tghere some caution is nececssary because of knock offs....

which are evident by paint color over the galv. which is not the original crosby gree n or red, can be spotted by camparison, also workmanship is a clue.

Purchasing from where the fishing fleet purchases usually ensure4s that the supplier is sourcing the genuine product.


BUT with chain it's more difficult.

 

[craigsmith]

[ QUOTE ]
Many thanks for all your suggestions and help.
Unfortunately out here its Asian chain or nothing and as the Acco chain I bought while passing the States isnt going to last a circumnavigation we are going to have to make do with chain from here.
I am still not sure how to tell hot dipped galvanised from zinc plated.
Can anyone tell me what to look for.
I have already had a suggestion from the boat next door to look for drip marks on the chain left over from the dipping process but my old chain doesnt have any drips on it either.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know where you are, but availability is never really an issue. I myself have arranged high quality Italian chain, which we prefer in the Asia-Pacific region, to be shipped to some rather out-of-the way places on numerous occasions. It can be done and the costs w.r.t. freight are not too high. Usually the excuse for junk chain is cost of the chain itself.

I don't think you can tell zinc plating from HDG just by looking, at least not without a bit of experience. HDG will have rounder edges as it creates a more even layer, and is thicker, but on chain that will be of little help. You could test by hack-sawing the end link in half maybe, and inspecting the cross section. Professionals use electronic gauges to inspect HDG coatings for adherence to specifications.

The point really is that if you are so unsure of a fundamental element like finish, do you really want to be trusting the security of your boat to such suspect chain! What is the grade? Is it calibrated? What is the proof? Is all that certified?

 

[wotayottie]

[ QUOTE ]

I am still not sure how to tell hot dipped galvanised from zinc plated.


[/ QUOTE ]

Its easy to tell the difference but almost impossible to describe how. Plating will be much more consistent and thinner. Hot dip, depending on how it was done, will show more evidence of the surface having been molten metal - ie runs or spiky bits or unever surface. You might well see evidence of chrystalline structure - snowflake like markings. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot-dip_galvanizing