Horseshoe lifebuoy

[LittleSister]

. . .Horseshoes are difficult to use in the water and hardly fit around a normally dressed thin person, never mind if wearing bulky waterproofs and tubby . . .

They've changed over the years. More to reduce manufacturing/transport etc. costs than any deliberate change in safety thinking, I would think.

The standard current ones are compact, very lightweight and come in nice colours. I doubt you'd get more than an arm through them, which then calls into question why not have a long rather than a U shape.

I have an old-fashioned lifebuoy that came with a previous boat. It is larger overall, and narrower in section, so the opening inside is significantly larger. It is also solid, not soft/flexible and much, much heavier. (It might well knock you out if it landed on your head!) On the other hand, it would much easier to throw a distance or into the wind, and be much less affected by wind both in flight and once afloat on the water.

 

[Refueler]

Even with only a buoyancy aid I could not swim 50M. I know because I have capsized hundreds of times in my dinghies & sailboards. That ( in more modern years) has been in wetsuit & light gear. I could probably struggle to make 5 M in full sailing kit whilst forced on my back by my LJ.
I think it is better for the MOB to do nothing, or at least as little as possible, until the recovery vessel is alongside. That preserves energy
You are right about time-- but not to the point of panic. That is where it all goes t..s up.
I have never tried getting back to an emergency wypt as my old GPS tend to work around 200 yds, but hitting the MOB button on the chart plotter, VHF or AIS seems a priority.

During my Cadet training and later Officer training .... we were always told to not swim unless liferaft / lifeboat is VERY close and attainable.

Swimming will >
1. You will be replacing water that sits inside your clothes / jacket and this will quickly drain away your body temperature.
2. It is exhausting and difficult making even the fittest person struggle and then easily overcome.

We were advised to get that whistle and if fitted light actioned ...

 

[capnsensible]

Just like the OP I have a horseshoe hanging off my boat, with a MOB light, all attached to a floating line on a drum. I have a separate throwing line too. I have never in my 40 years of boating used them or seen them being used in anger.

As with all these things, the frequency of use is so small we can only make rough plans as to what we would do when someone goes over the side. Perhaps we can practice a few times too. .... but it's not really enough. To comfort ourselves, we create scenarios in our heads with little real-world experience and base our plans, and our equipment choice, on those scenarios.

When the sh!t hits the fan, more likely than not, there will be so many variables at play, weather, tide, waves, darkness, the person who actually went over, and the knowledge and skills of those left on board, that like Dwight Eisenhower wrote "Peace-time plans are of no particular value, but peace-time planning is indispensable." - so every situation will be slightly different.

The more you customise your kit based on your perceived scenarios, the less likely other crew members are to be able to use it effectively, and the more it is tailored to your favourite scenarios - you've baked your MOB Plan into your equipment. Bad idea IMO.

I try and keep it simple, don't customise my equipment or deviate far from the norm - IMO that's the best way to ensure that anyone on board with a modicum of experience will be able to understand and operate it without thinking "WTF, why is there a mini sea-anchor attached to the horseshoe!?" ... and spend valuable minutes trying to remove it.

Simply explain to them that the horseshoe lifering will blow away rapidly without the drogue.

 

[Daydream believer]

Simply explain to them that the horseshoe lifering will blow away rapidly without the drogue.

That is another 20 seconds gone then

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I had a very second hand one of these on my last boat. Stupidly, I left it on board when I sold it. £85 seems a bit excessive, but this one is a more sensible price

Seago Rescue Throw Bag

That is a different item. The expensive one comes with an integral lifting strop that is designed to be thrown with the line. If the casualty can get the line, they can slip the lifting strop over the head and then be lifted out the water. The low cost version, leaves the casualty floating in the water and something else has to be done to lift them out. The more expensive one every time for me.

 

[capnsensible]

That is another 20 seconds gone then

Indeed. Anyone who has chased a horseshoe lifering in a strong wind that didn't have drogue fitted will know this. Those that haven't, won't.

 

[mattonthesea]

If you're doing ten knots, that's 5 metres per second. If it takes ten seconds to launch the horseshoe, matey has a 50m swim.
Time is of the essence!

A few days ago we had to remove the danbuoy and horseshoe. My partner, with no pressure to enforce mistakes, took over 30 seconds to release it. And she knows how it is fitted and how it works. Food for our thoughts!

On a slight thread drift: if we had been sailing and I had gone OB then she would have had to make a decision re stop boat or throw danbuoy. One of the reasons that we sail as if we were both single handers. We see risk assessment as a personal thing

 

[Refueler]

How many boats do you see the grab line clips of the buoy passed through holder and then clipped ... that means buoy cannot be lost in wind / waves etc - but slows down use !

Then when you have the ones with lights - that adds a bit unclipping light ...
then another with coiled neat line - might as well just throw the whole line is as is as its useless anyway ..
another than has drogue ?

So they are all as easy as a buoy on its own ??

 

[capnsensible]

How many boats do you see the grab line clips of the buoy passed through holder and then clipped ... that means buoy cannot be lost in wind / waves etc - but slows down use !

Then when you have the ones with lights - that adds a bit unclipping light ...
then another with coiled neat line - might as well just throw the whole line is as is as its useless anyway ..
another than has drogue ?

So they are all as easy as a buoy on its own ??

It's technique at the end of the day. All the extras are mandated on commercial vessels. Hence the method of one person stopping the boat....heave to or throttle off, whatever. Back to the casualty to hand them the mob equipment......checked after every exercise or course to make sure its ready to go. Tootle off sort boat, return to casualty who has an aid to flotation and is well marked and visible. Of course, two crew, one in water adds an extra dimension. When my wife and I used to head off over the horizon, we would always do a couple of practices. And rig our personalised recovery kit a few times.

That's the key I my opinion. Practice, practice. Practice.

 

[Refueler]

It's technique at the end of the day. All the extras are mandated on commercial vessels. Hence the method of one person stopping the boat....heave to or throttle off, whatever. Back to the casualty to hand them the mob equipment......checked after every exercise or course to make sure its ready to go. Tootle off sort boat, return to casualty who has an aid to flotation and is well marked and visible. Of course, two crew, one in water adds an extra dimension. When my wife and I used to head off over the horizon, we would always do a couple of practices. And rig our personalised recovery kit a few times.

That's the key I my opinion. Practice, practice. Practice.

Fine - that's your boat and system ... but I think you missed my point.

So many boats - the buoys sitting there all nice and comfy in their holders are often clipped in ... may have lines, light or drogue attached - all adding up to hinder the person detailed to heave it over !!

 

[capnsensible]

Fine - that's your boat and system ... but I think you missed my point.

So many boats - the buoys sitting there all nice and comfy in their holders are often clipped in ... may have lines, light or drogue attached - all adding up to hinder the person detailed to heave it over !!

Indeed. That's why on school yachts we put so much emphasis on understanding kit and deploying it..... and being aware of what can go wrong.

Personally I think it's important that people practice all manner of emergency plans but I'm also highly aware few do.

 

[finestgreen]

Indeed. That's why on school yachts we put so much emphasis on understanding kit and deploying it..... and being aware of what can go wrong.

Personally I think it's important that people practice all manner of emergency plans but I'm also highly aware few do.

In hindsight, it's really odd that I went through CC, DS and CS courses never physically throwing anything off the boat for a MOB exercise - it wasn't until YM prep week that I tried and it turned out to be quite a bit less simple and efficient than any of us assumed.

 

[Refueler]

In hindsight, it's really odd that I went through CC, DS and CS courses never physically throwing anything off the boat for a MOB exercise - it wasn't until YM prep week that I tried and it turned out to be quite a bit less simple and efficient than any of us assumed.

Its why main emphasis (taught to Naval persons of both services) is lookout and marker.

Too many people seem to think that you can throw a buoy and then pull casualty in by the line ... if you can do that - fine - but I would suggest that chances of such as not far of Lottery Odds !


Lookout ... just on this subject - many of you have probably heard of the Willamson Turn ... a turn that was devised during wartime - reportedly by a USN Lieutenant .... basically if guy goes over port side - immediate hard turn to port, 60 degrees off course - hard over to stbd .. continue turn till on reciprocal. It works and ship is literally near on the line she made ... BUT its major flaw is the change of aspect of casualty to lookout.
Its why in latter years a straight turn to port 270 then back on reciprocal was preferred to keep casualty on one side of vessel for lookout.
If casualty could not be seen after some distance - lookout's job then was to keep eye on marker ... as that would at least bring back near to casualty.

Just commenting. I've been involved in two MOB's on ship and both were lost sadly. It is certainly not an easy matter.

 

[mattonthesea]

In hindsight, it's really odd that I went through CC, DS and CS courses never physically throwing anything off the boat for a MOB exercise - it wasn't until YM prep week that I tried and it turned out to be quite a bit less simple and efficient than any of us assumed.

I was physically restrained from throwing the horseshoe out when on my YM prep!

 

[tidclacy]

When I had my cruiser we had a life sling and a horseshoe with suitable tackle to hoist someone aboard. Never had to use it fortunately.
As someone said earlier
It's a bit like car insurance you hope you never need it, but when you have an accident you're glad you had it.