Horrific flare accident

[GHA]

What about a laser? I got a 1000mW one from Hong Kong which could probably light up a wall in Calais from Dover. Doubt if it will ever get used, for fear of blinding someone or getting arrested. Would certainly get me noticed in extremis though

 

[KellysEye]

>I don't know where you're based but I know of no rule in the UK that obliges one to carry any safety equipment what so ever on a private pleasure vessel be it VHF, Epirb or flares.

RORC require VHF, flares, liferaft, EPIRB and more http://www.rorc.org/special-regulations/isaf-offshore-special-regulations.html the ARC has the same rules. Sailing inshore in fine weather and within VHF range needs nothing, offshore is a diferent matter. Bear in mind the skipper has legal duty of care to the crew so safety eqipment must must be appropriate to the type of sailing.

 

[Seajet]

The type of flare which injured Duncan Wells was publicised and the batch withdrawn. I had two ! White hand flare actually

View attachment 53406

 

[gus]

Apart from the debate as to the pros and cons of flares. If the principle was the intolerance of 'explosives' being on board. May I remind everyone that every vehicle that has air bags has an 'explosive device' to inflate the air bag.

 

[sailorman]

Apart from the debate as to the pros and cons of flares. If the principle was the intolerance of 'explosives' being on board. May I remind everyone that every vehicle that has air bags has an 'explosive device' to inflate the air bag.

are those devices changed ever 3 yrs too

 

[Graham Shaw]

In France, where my boat is registered, it is no longer a requirement to carry flares if one's boat is equipped with a DSC VHF.

 

[Daydream believer]

Apparently you can only buy the "ammunition" in the USA.

I could have bought shells in Swanscombe Kent from a ship suppliers but they were slightly too long for my short barreled pistol being designed for the pistol supplied by Plastimo ( are Plastimo still going?) Plastimo still show the gun in their catalogue
I could acquire them in France but would have to go there in person to supplier as the chandlers do not normally have licence to stock & supply
Shells are also available in Uk in large quantities ( approx 400 plus)only which is no use to a private user
Some 25mm shells are available from czech republic but transport is the problem , as it is from the USA

 

[trapezeartist]

Apart from the debate as to the pros and cons of flares. If the principle was the intolerance of 'explosives' being on board. May I remind everyone that every vehicle that has air bags has an 'explosive device' to inflate the air bag.

Not at all. They are a very different animal.

I won't have flares on my boat. I would really like to have a "laser-flare" but I'm waiting for the time when someone devises a proper standard so that people know what the flare looks like and we can be sure it is not going to blind anyone.

Coastguard rescue vehicles carry flares (for illumination). They are carefully packaged up in a special metal box, not permitted in the passenger compartment, accompanied by big leather gloves and a full face visor, and also accompanied by half a ton of paperwork recording their explosive power. Those are not conditions that can be achieved on a small to medium yacht.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Since when have EPIRBs been mandatory? I"ve never carried one.

He's posting from Australia, widely seen as the world's most nannyish nanny state.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-34048497

 

[JumbleDuck]

AIUI it is just as illegal to fire off marine flares inland on bonfire night as it is on any other night ...

That may well be true, but what makes you think it is illegal at all?

 

[William_H]

He's posting from Australia, widely seen as the world's most nannyish nanny state.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-34048497

Quite so although I do not disagree with the Nanny state rules completely. (only about flares) These rules are pecuiar to West Australia but are genrally mirrored across all states. The rules come from experience of so many small trailer boat o/b powered 12 to 14ft fishing /fun boats being bought by every man and his dog. They were coming unstuck on an almost weekly basis in summer. Now skipper also must have a Skipper's Ticket after training and test. The regs here might be an indication of good practice for any skipper.
I must say that the EPIRB particularly has cut down cost of searches. UK certainly is by comparison free of regulation possibly becuase boat ing is not so popular per capita basis. So the post was partly to make my UK friends aware of how free of regs they are. olewill

 

[Sandy]

Take care with flares. I don't know the full details but a well known man who ran his own business here in Marmaris, working on yachts, has been killed in a horrific accident. Details are a bit sketchy and I first heard that he shot himself in the head with a flare gun on board a boat here, though someone else told me it was a parachute rocket.. Either way the poor man is dead.

Clearly more detailed information is needed, there is too much speculation and conjecture in your posting, "he shot himself in the head" sounds like a deliberate act, accidental or intended.

I for one will continue to have flares on the boat, one of the many tools in the toolkit when shit happens. Having used them in Mountain Rescue I have no issues with there carriage and use. The are really, really useful for guiding in a helicopter.

 

[DownWest]

As to the question about being used for real. Here you are required to carry three reds and a friend capsized his open sailing boat and could not right it. One of the island ferries spotted the third one and fished him and the two other crew out. (boat since modded to self rescue)
DW

 

[Seajet]

Clearly more detailed information is needed, there is too much speculation and conjecture in your posting, "he shot himself in the head" sounds like a deliberate act, accidental or intended.

I for one will continue to have flares on the boat, one of the many tools in the toolkit when shit happens. Having used them in Mountain Rescue I have no issues with there carriage and use. The are really, really useful for guiding in a helicopter.

+1 to carrying flares, and why I asked if there was any more detail from Norman E.

 

[EdWingfield]

I seem to remember another accident, maybe 15yrs ago when the poor user lost his face in a flare misfire.

Anyone remember that one?

 

[Woodlouse]

Apparently you can only buy the "ammunition" in the USA.

Any gunsmiths should be able to get very pistol flares. You need firearms licence to buy and transport them though but once on the boat they become safety equipment and are perfectly legal.

 

[prv]

That may well be true, but what makes you think it is illegal at all?

Coastguard press officials and similar people like to announce that firing flares inland is illegal, hence the common perception. When pressed, the MCA has admitted that this isn't actually true, the only specific prohibition on land being in relation to football stadiums (legacy of 80s hooliganism). Of course you can use a flare to commit a public order offence, illegally damage property, etc - but the act of firing the flare is not specifically prohibited so if you do it safely and considerately then you wouldn't be committing an offence. I've let off quite a few hand flares in my garden as combination disposal and practice.

Rocket flares are a different matter, though, because they can land still burning and start fires.

Pete

 

[Thistle]

Since when have EPIRBs been mandatory? I"ve never carried one.

In Oz.

 

[lw395]

Coastguard press officials and similar people like to announce that firing flares inland is illegal, hence the common perception. When pressed, the MCA has admitted that this isn't actually true, the only specific prohibition on land being in relation to football stadiums (legacy of 80s hooliganism). Of course you can use a flare to commit a public order offence, illegally damage property, etc - but the act of firing the flare is not specifically prohibited so if you do it safely and considerately then you wouldn't be committing an offence. I've let off quite a few hand flares in my garden as combination disposal and practice.

Rocket flares are a different matter, though, because they can land still burning and start fires.

Pete

Hand flares are one thing, rocket flares very different.
I suspect they could find something to charge people with if they let off rocket flares and land on some one else's property.
If it actually did damage or hurt somebody you could definitely be in trouble.
They are not like fireworks, they are designed to keep burning until they hit the water.

 

[GrahamM376]

Not at all. They are a very different animal.

I won't have flares on my boat. I would really like to have a "laser-flare" but I'm waiting for the time when someone devises a proper standard so that people know what the flare looks like and we can be sure it is not going to blind anyone.

Coastguard rescue vehicles carry flares (for illumination). They are carefully packaged up in a special metal box, not permitted in the passenger compartment, accompanied by big leather gloves and a full face visor, and also accompanied by half a ton of paperwork recording their explosive power. Those are not conditions that can be achieved on a small to medium yacht.

Coastguard regs have to take into account HSE work rules, which we don't. Many lifeboat shouts have come about by flares being seen from shore by members of the public who most likely wouldn't recognise a laser as a distress signal. Where we're based, flares are mandatory, as is a long list of equipment - Most UK registered boats come into category 1 - http://liveinfo.lagosnavigators.net...uguese-safety-equipment-standards-for-yachts/