Horrific flare accident

[William_H]

The argument seems to have deteriorated to value of flares in an emergency. Our authorities mandate carriage of min 2 smoke flares and 2 red flares. Must be rocket flares beyond 3 nm from shore, so really rocket flares are mandated. Further they must be within the 3 year life date. They do inspect at boat ramps and harbour exits.
Now as they also require you to carry an EPIRB and a marine radio one would imagine that flares could be dispensed with. I wait (not holding breath) for flares to be removed form the required equipment list. They are horrible and expensive. Since mandating EPIRB there have been lots of rescues possible from the EPIRB but I have not heard of any rescues initiated by flares. I certianly would not carry flares if it was not required. olewill

 

[Seven Spades]

There have been quite a few posts like your over the years, but this last year there have been two significant rescues of seamen as a result of the discharge of flares. For the most part they do work and they are proven. Sometimes simplicity is a good thing.

 

[Fendant]

I agree with these Nicosignal flare Containers being useful, once you have been trained how to use them.
A signal pistol is another thing as you have to respect miles of legal tape when you visit other countries.
In Germany for example you have to keep them in a strong box ( mini vault ) firmly attached to the boat and the ammo in another stong box. Then you need to have a license to carry a fire arm.
And finally there is a police inspection of arm and storage every year with a whopping invoice afterwards. Scandinavia and France have some strict complicated rules as well.

 

[savageseadog]

Smokes are very useful to indicate wind direction to helicopters as well as to indicate the boat in distress.

 

[Seajet]

Norman E,

are there any more details yet as to what happened in the case in your OP ?

 

[Daydream believer]

A signal pistol is another thing as you have to respect miles of legal tape when you visit other countries.
.

My experience differs from that statement ( accepted I know nothing of German regs having not been there)
When I had my pistol I also asked for , and received, a European firearms certificate FOC
In France Belgium & Holland the customs & police had no issues with the licence & none asked to see where the pistol was stored ( In the grab bag)
I had well over 30 visits from police & customs in the time I had it
However, in France the customs twice asked to see my flares to check dates. I believe that if they had been out of date I may have incurred a fine

 

[daviddb]

As a statement of the bleedin' obvious (of which I am prone to when ruminating over the breakfast toast) things that seem safe and simple and obvious when sitting quietly at leisure at the table, like pyrotechnic wizz-bangs, do have the unwelcome attribute of being less than fool-proof when in the hands of tired, befuddled ,frit folk who find themselves in a bit of a bind. I grant you the same could be said of a hammer or a tin opener. Give me a tin of sardines and I'll show you a man on warfarin trying to get the lid of a tin of elastoplast.

 

[Topcat47]

Now as they also require you to carry an EPIRB and a marine radio one would imagine that flares could be dispensed with. I wait (not holding breath) for flares to be removed form the required equipment list. They are horrible and expensive. Since mandating EPIRB there have been lots of rescues possible from the EPIRB but I have not heard of any rescues initiated by flares. I certianly would not carry flares if it was not required. olewill

Since when have EPIRBs been mandatory? I"ve never carried one.

 

[KellysEye]

>That is perhaps the most outrageous post I've seen on this forum to date. Perhaps you would be willing to aim a 25mm Very pistol at your forehead and pull the trigger to back up your claim? ... I didn't think so.

It wasn't outrageous it was true. First a question, how many here carry a Very pistol on board? Second nobody, unless suicidal, would be stupid enough to fire Very pistol or a flare into their head.

 

[Norman_E]

Norman E,

are there any more details yet as to what happened in the case in your OP ?

No more details I'm afraid. I only knew him slightly but cannot imagine that it was anything but an accident.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Since when have EPIRBs been mandatory? I"ve never carried one.

I think he's in Australia. Might be different there?

 

[PabloPicasso]

? .......if they misfunction they can be fatal.

Well this often said, but is it true. Has anyone in a mayday situation been,instead, killed by a misfiring safety flair?

 

[PabloPicasso]

The only way to get rid of them is to set them off on firework night. No one will take them!

And setting them off at least lets you experience lighting the damn things, something most of us never get to do. If you haven't set one off then you need to do it if you intend using them in an emergency. Setting one off for the first time as your vessel burns/sinks/drifts helplessly into the path of a big ship I s not the time to find out you done know what you're doing with flairs

 

[Yngmar]

After I'd heard what happened to Duncan Wells (YM August 2007, or Google), I definitely don't want to carry shoddily made explosives on my boat. A Pains Wessex flare (the ones sold at every UK chandlery) backfired into his stomach, spent its burn time there and damn near killed him. The £1.3m settlement Pains Wessex eventually coughed up implies that it wasn't due to mishandling or being out of date, it was a badly made flare. Makes you wonder how many of the flares sitting in boats and chandlers are actually death traps rather than life saving kit. As the vast majority of them are never used, it'd be unlikely to be discovered if there where whole batches of them that are faulty. The manufacturers certainly wouldn't admit it, as that'd be the end of them.

I have an electronic handheld strobe, an EPIRB and the usual set of VHF radios. I haven't yet figured out what to do when visiting countries that demand to see flares (France being one, I think). Hopefully this legislation will soon get modernized, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Boo2]

The only way to get rid of them is to set them off on firework night. No one will take them!

That's not true, several chandlers will take old flares off your hands when you buy new, Marine Superstore in Port Solent for one see here : http://www.marinesuperstore.com/signaling/flares/pains-wessex-flare-packs-collection-in-store-only

They do not insist on a like for like replacement, I bought a RORC pack and handed over a motley assortment of flares plus a Coastal pack and they were happy to take them off my hands at no charge.

AIUI it is just as illegal to fire off marine flares inland on bonfire night as it is on any other night, obviously the risk of inadvertently alerting the coastguard is reduced but I do no think is should be advised.

Boo2

 

[Woodlouse]

Now as they also require you to carry an EPIRB and a marine radio one would imagine that flares could be dispensed with. I wait (not holding breath) for flares to be removed form the required equipment list. They are horrible and expensive. Since mandating EPIRB there have been lots of rescues possible from the EPIRB but I have not heard of any rescues initiated by flares. I certianly would not carry flares if it was not required. olewill

I don't know where you're based but I know of no rule in the UK that obliges one to carry any safety equipment what so ever on a private pleasure vessel be it VHF, Epirb or flares.

 

[Sybarite]

Very few people carry Very pistols these days, the licensing procedures for this country are too onerous. .

Apparently you can only buy the "ammunition" in the USA.

 

[macd]

I don't know where you're based but I know of no rule in the UK that obliges one to carry any safety equipment what so ever on a private pleasure vessel be it VHF, Epirb or flares.

As suggested above, Australia. To be more precise "West Australia" if you take the trouble to look at William's profile.

 

[bedouin]

I don't know where you're based but I know of no rule in the UK that obliges one to carry any safety equipment what so ever on a private pleasure vessel be it VHF, Epirb or flares.

I think there are rules if you are over 14 or 15 metres - I seem to remember the owner of a 15m MOBO getting fined a few years ago.

 

[Yngmar]

I think there are rules if you are over 14 or 15 metres - I seem to remember the owner of a 15m MOBO getting fined a few years ago.

The rules apply for 13.7m (~45 ft) registered LOA and above and are outlined in this PDF document: http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectio...and Safety/13.7m regs Class XII Exemption.pdf

They're further broken down into how far from shore a vessel is venturing. And yes, they mandate a set of flares (including parachute flares if more than 3 nm from shore).

There's an easier to view version here, adding to the legally required equipment the recommendations from the RYA: http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/safetyinfo/Pages/pvequipment.aspx