steve66
Well-known member
Watch this space...... I have a meeting with a guy who may be making me tooling for stainless float bowls and stainless rocker covers.
Honda BF 2 and 2.3 - a few observations from a long term owner
- Thread starter dylanwinter
- Start date
NUTMEG
New member
Thank you, very useful.
sailorman
Well-known member
chewi
Active member
sailorman
Well-known member
have you tried a s/h lawnmower shop
chewi
Active member
not yet, but thats a good idea.
Steve66 pointed out the electrolysis issues here. ANY moisture that gets to the carb sits at the bottom of the bowl, where we have, in close proximity.
a mild steel, zinc coated bowl
a mild steel male thread in an aluminium female thread for the bowl fixing
a brass /bronze drain screw (seized)
with such a cocktail rust is surely inevitable.
The usual advice about draining the carb is good, not for the usual reason of preventing the varnishy products of evaporation of the fuel, but to prevent the rust, so I wish I had followed it.
sailorman
Well-known member
Hence binning it & buy one made by Tohatsu
dartmoor
Member
I suspect the Honda 2.3hp is the same 57cc engine as the Honda 57cc lawn mower one. Nothing wrong with that but....for the fact that patently no attempt was made to marinise it by using the right materials. Probably taken from the garden machinery parts bin, popped on top of a central fugal clutch (no doubt from the moped parts bin) and bingo - cheap engine to produce.
I remember the "drain screw" on the carb on the one I had. Big contrast to a 40 year old villiers carb where it was all high quality brass and alloys. The seagull villiers carb is about the most robust simple durable carb ever - very very crude and leaky - but always serviceable.
I remember the "drain screw" on the carb on the one I had. Big contrast to a 40 year old villiers carb where it was all high quality brass and alloys. The seagull villiers carb is about the most robust simple durable carb ever - very very crude and leaky - but always serviceable.
sailorman
Well-known member
Really
steve66
Well-known member
Lol not quite a moped actually off a rotovator. I cannot agree more if a little time was spent marinising it it would be a classic..It would be very easy for them to make them last longer but they are built they are disposable in their eyes.QUOTE=dartmoor;4980387]I suspect the Honda 2.3hp is the same 57cc engine as the Honda 57cc lawn mower one. Nothing wrong with that but....for the fact that patently no attempt was made to marinise it by using the right materials. Probably taken from the garden machinery parts bin, popped on top of a central fugal clutch (no doubt from the moped parts bin) and bingo - cheap engine to produce.
I remember the "drain screw" on the carb on the one I had. Big contrast to a 40 year old villiers carb where it was all high quality brass and alloys. The seagull villiers carb is about the most robust simple durable carb ever - very very crude and leaky - but always serviceable.[/QUOTE]
I remember the "drain screw" on the carb on the one I had. Big contrast to a 40 year old villiers carb where it was all high quality brass and alloys. The seagull villiers carb is about the most robust simple durable carb ever - very very crude and leaky - but always serviceable.[/QUOTE]
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chewi
Active member
I recall the moped clutch was oil soaked, whereas that in the BF2.3 is dry, so I think not.
Talulah
Well-known member
The BF2.3 clutch is from a chainsaw.
rotrax
Well-known member
Some are, some are not.
The Honda C100-the first step through 50 in 1958- had a pushrod engine, three speed gearbox with a centrifugal clutch and a disengageing mechanism when the gear pedal was depressed.
The clutch and gear mechanism were in unit with the engine and lubricated by the same oil.
The clutch/gear mechanism was a direct rip off from Jawa-who had it covered with world Patents- who took serious issue with Honda and actually got supplies stopped for a short while untill it was resolved. Honda paid Jawa £100,000 for a licence untill the Patent expired. That has got to be the best deal for Honda ever-the same clutch and gear mechanism is in use today and at least 50 million have been made by licenced-or in the case of many Chinese companies-unlicenced copies.
The belt drive scooters and mopeds have an infinitly variable-within set limits-transmission with a dry belt and centrifugal clutch. I dont know, but I would imagine this would be the most suitable for an outboard. Oil would be an uneccessary addition-although if it leaked out it might protect bits from rusting.
OH-sorry-this is where it started.............................
steve66
Well-known member
its actually from a honda rotavator, the chainsaw clutches are much smaller
dartmoor
Member
Hi all, I contacted Honda Marine UK, and gave them a link to this thread. They have promised a response - so watch this space!
sailorman
Well-known member
Well they make better lawnmowers than outboards thats for sure.
For the best small outboards Tohatsu & their re-badged models take some beating
dylanwinter
Active member
the little one has been a great starter - and continues to be a good starter - so that is a long time without trouble
ditto the mower
if I was in the market for a fifteen HP long shaft (who knows what the future holds) that I intended to hammer then a Honda two cylinder would be in the frame
nearly every engine I saw in Littlehampton - with its six knot tides - was a Honda
Dylan
steve66
Well-known member
Im a member of the Honda community for small outboards run by Honda uk. I have asked question after question and the answer i always get is we have forwarded this to your local Honda main agent. They will be in touch shortly. The local agent is a very good friend of mine , still waiting for my responses
dartmoor
Member
Ok, here is the response so far:
"Thank you for contacting Honda UK.
After carefully considering the comments shared in the forum, to which you kindly provided us with a link, we agree that they are worth further attention. Please be assured that this will be passed on to all the relevant departments within Honda for their reference.
However, we can confidently state that Honda spends a lot of time, effort and expenses to guaranty the quality and reliability of our products.
Our warranty periods are proof of the confidence we have in our outboard engines when the maintenance procedures are followed as per Honda standards and recommendations. We are not questioning the devotion, passion or competence of Honda owners, or the members and users of Yachting and Boating World - only stating that many things can affect the quality of our products and they need to be taken into consideration.
We were sorry to learn that some of the forum members were left with the impression that only minor improvements are offered in latest Honda outboard engine models. Please be assured that this is definitely not the case and that the BF series have been gradually improved and that we are always aiming for perfection. Especially on such a competitive market.
Our Research and Development department is focused on improving all aspects of our engines, including performance, design and reliability. We are also focused on their purpose of use.
The development and spread of rust is something that can be avoided and/or resolved if identified on time. There are situations when the reoccurrence of an issue can require more. For that reason, Honda technicians, based within our dealerships, execute more than repairs and maintenance. It is their experience and carefully kept records that helps our Engineering and Production departments identify issues that require further investigation and may lead to product development.
If you are currently facing any issue with a Honda outboard engine, we would really appreciate it if you can provide us with all the details so that we may accurately advise you further and assist you in the process.
Thank you for contacting Honda. If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Honda Customer Service
_____________________
Honda Motor Europe Ltd.
Honda UK"
In my view this is predictably defensive, but perhaps also acknowledging that there are concerns they ought to be listening too.
Of course this is a response from Europe, not Japan where the bosses are.
"Thank you for contacting Honda UK.
After carefully considering the comments shared in the forum, to which you kindly provided us with a link, we agree that they are worth further attention. Please be assured that this will be passed on to all the relevant departments within Honda for their reference.
However, we can confidently state that Honda spends a lot of time, effort and expenses to guaranty the quality and reliability of our products.
Our warranty periods are proof of the confidence we have in our outboard engines when the maintenance procedures are followed as per Honda standards and recommendations. We are not questioning the devotion, passion or competence of Honda owners, or the members and users of Yachting and Boating World - only stating that many things can affect the quality of our products and they need to be taken into consideration.
We were sorry to learn that some of the forum members were left with the impression that only minor improvements are offered in latest Honda outboard engine models. Please be assured that this is definitely not the case and that the BF series have been gradually improved and that we are always aiming for perfection. Especially on such a competitive market.
Our Research and Development department is focused on improving all aspects of our engines, including performance, design and reliability. We are also focused on their purpose of use.
The development and spread of rust is something that can be avoided and/or resolved if identified on time. There are situations when the reoccurrence of an issue can require more. For that reason, Honda technicians, based within our dealerships, execute more than repairs and maintenance. It is their experience and carefully kept records that helps our Engineering and Production departments identify issues that require further investigation and may lead to product development.
If you are currently facing any issue with a Honda outboard engine, we would really appreciate it if you can provide us with all the details so that we may accurately advise you further and assist you in the process.
Thank you for contacting Honda. If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Honda Customer Service
_____________________
Honda Motor Europe Ltd.
Honda UK"
In my view this is predictably defensive, but perhaps also acknowledging that there are concerns they ought to be listening too.
Of course this is a response from Europe, not Japan where the bosses are.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
Just the typical bolleaux that you would expect. Yeah, spend £100 a pop to get the dealer to change the oils and smear some grease around, and that will stop the inside of the carb rusting and blocking the jets if any water gets in.
Er, no it won't. The solution is for Honda to spend another 83p during manufacture and make the carb out of non-rusting metal like every other manufacturer does.