Home Office Future Border & Immigration Systems - sPCR Engagement Event

[Bristolfashion]

I don’t care if they call me or not, but the guidance is that you should not remove your Q flag until told you can do so under pain of an undisclosed ‘penalty’.

Basically, every boat that does one of these trips will end up displaying the Q flag until the end of days!

The inability to implement clear, workable and working systems is depressing.

 

[stranded]

Basically, every boat that does one of these trips will end up displaying the Q flag until the end of days!

The inability to implement clear, workable and working systems is depressing.

Maybe that is what is needed - every boat that has ever been out of the Uk should fly a Q flag in perpetuity until the BF system goes haywire. Although it’s probably not very different in reality from the French apparently very laissez fairs attitude to the whole business and we should just adopt a Gallic shrug.

 

[lustyd]

I don’t care if they call me or not, but the guidance is that you should not remove your Q flag until told you can do so under pain of an undisclosed ‘penalty’.

But that’s what I mean, as a uk resident the system acknowledges your reentry which is your permission to remove it. If you have others on board they flag them for checks and you must have further contact. Seemed pretty straightforward to me.

 

[stranded]

But that’s what I mean, as a uk resident the system acknowledges your reentry which is your permission to remove it. If you have others on board they flag them for checks and you must have further contact. Seemed pretty straightforward to me.

You’re probably right - you usually are - but the guidance says there will be clearance when you arrive ‘or else’ - it shouldn’t be our job to work out what they meant to say - it isn’t hard for them to do so.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

We checked in a couple of weeks ago using the new system. We initially obeyed the standing instruction to wait until Border Force contact you. After 7 hours asleep (we arrived at 2 am) I got bored of waiting and phoned them. A couple of routine questions from a pleasant enough chap and then permission to take down the Q flag.

 

[lustyd]

but the guidance says there will be clearance when you arrive ‘or else’

Guidance looks clear to me:

Make sure the flag can easily be seen and do not take it down until you’ve finished reporting to customs authorities.

Submit your report online

Use the online service ‘Tell Border Force and HMRC you are sailing to or from the UK in a pleasure craft’. The online service:

means you’ll not need to contact Border Force or the National Yachtline directly

When you finish the online process for checking in, you're done and can take it down. You can complete this 12 miles off shore if you have Starlink or similar so may never finish raising that flag. Needless to say, if you use the legacy reporting services then you're in the hands of border control who probably don't consider you a priority, with any luck the yachtline will clear the boat.

 

[stranded]

Guidance looks clear to me:




When you finish the online process for checking in, you're done and can take it down. You can complete this 12 miles off shore if you have Starlink or similar so may never finish raising that flag. Needless to say, if you use the legacy reporting services then you're in the hands of border control who probably don't consider you a priority, with any luck the yachtline will clear the boat.

“Your voyage plan has been submitted​

Voyage plan reference: 20240905_153835_Nooka_6043399_sPCR

What happens next​

Your voyage plan has been submitted to Border Force and HMRC. Border Force will notify you about your arrival. If you need to contact Border Force or HMRC please include the voyage plan reference number. Take a screenshot of the Border Force regional contact numbers listed on the Help page for future reference in case you are unable to access the service.

You can only lower the Q flag once advised by Border Force.”​

?

 

[lustyd]

You can only lower the Q flag once advised by Border Force.”​

What are you quoting there? I posted from the official website as I linked in the quote and it clearly states you can lower when you finish reporting to authorities, which you have.

 

[stranded]

What are you quoting there? I posted from the official website as I linked in the quote and it clearly states you can lower when you finish reporting to authorities, which you have.

That’s lifted directly from the email I received from Border Force acknowledging that I had submitted my voyage plan. It’s pretty clear I should expect a further communication but haven’t.

 

[lustyd]

did you use the app though? The email I got didn't say anything of the sort, mine said:

If you are required to seek Immigration permission to enter the United Kingdom you must contact the local port on arrival.

And since I was not required to seek it, I didn't.

If yours said that then they need to change the wording to match the instructions!

 

[wonkywinch]

did you use the app though? The email I got didn't say anything of the sort, mine said:

And since I was not required to seek it, I didn't.

What app?

 

[lustyd]

What app?

Web app - the new and current way to submit reports and the one that doesn't require you to contact anyone on arrival

 

[stranded]

did you use the app though? The email I got didn't say anything of the sort, mine said:

And since I was not required to seek it, I didn't.

If yours said that then they need to change the wording to match the instructions!

I used the sPCR website. So that may explain the discrepancy. But the BF response to the CA that Wonky quoted:

The CA queried this with the Home Office and have now received a response which is that Border Force should be contacting the vessel during that 2 hour window that is set in your passage plan submission.

If they do not contact you then you should call Yachtline to request permission. They have also agreed to review and reword either or both the instructions on the sPCR web service and the email response to passage reports.

hardly clarifies things!

I’ll download the app and see how it goes next time.

 

[lustyd]

Sorry the website is what I was referring to, seems there are different versions of the email that have been sent out

 

[stranded]

Sorry the website is what I was referring to, seems there are different versions of the email that have been sent out

it’s hardly surprising we are confused is it!

 

[Boathook]

I used the sPCR website. So that may explain the discrepancy. But the BF response to the CA that Wonky quoted:


hardly clarifies things!

I’ll download the app and see how it goes next time.

It is not an app but just a website. The site works reasonably well but the wording needs some tiding up along with the email it generates. I came back from the CI, but after being back for a few hours took the Q flag down as I was going home !
I didn't contact border force as I felt there wasn't a need having filled out the website. The bit below is copied from the email I received from them so there is conflicting words imho.

Dear
Your voyage plan has been submitted
Voyage plan reference:
What happens next
• Your voyage plan has been submitted to Border Force and HMRC. Border Force will notify you about your arrival.
• If you need to contact Border Force or HMRC please include the voyage plan reference number.
• Take a screenshot of the Border Force regional contact numbers listed on the Help page for future reference in case you are unable to access the service.
You can only lower the Q flag once advised by Border Force.
If you are planning a return voyage
Create a new voyage plan using the sPCR service.
If you need to change or cancel your voyage plan
You can tell us about a change to your plan by going to manage your voyage plans. If you make any changes to a plan, you will need to re-submit it.
Kind Regards
Submit a Pleasure Craft Report Team, Border Force

 

[wonkywinch]

It is not an app but just a website. The site works reasonably well but the wording needs some tiding up along with the email it generates. I came back from the CI, but after being back for a few hours took the Q flag down as I was going home !
I didn't contact border force as I felt there wasn't a need having filled out the website. The bit below is copied from the email I received from them so there is conflicting words imho.

Dear
Your voyage plan has been submitted
Voyage plan reference:
What happens next
• Your voyage plan has been submitted to Border Force and HMRC. Border Force will notify you about your arrival.
• If you need to contact Border Force or HMRC please include the voyage plan reference number.
• Take a screenshot of the Border Force regional contact numbers listed on the Help page for future reference in case you are unable to access the service.
You can only lower the Q flag once advised by Border Force.
If you are planning a return voyage
Create a new voyage plan using the sPCR service.
If you need to change or cancel your voyage plan
You can tell us about a change to your plan by going to manage your voyage plans. If you make any changes to a plan, you will need to re-submit it.
Kind Regards
Submit a Pleasure Craft Report Team, Border Force

"You can only lower the Q flag once advised by Border Force."

 

[lustyd]

"You can only lower the Q flag once advised by Border Force."

I take their FAQ to be "advice from border force", which I quoted earlier and says you can take it down when you finish reporting to them. It's tenuous but it's within the definition of their own wording

 

[wonkywinch]

I take their FAQ to be "advice from border force", which I quoted earlier and says you can take it down when you finish reporting to them. It's tenuous but it's within the definition of their own wording

Agree but the point has now been clarified this week by Border Force via the Cruising Association this week. I am sure it will filter through to the RYA and non members of either in due course.

HMRC/Border Force are people I choose not to argue semantics with.

 

[lustyd]

HMRC/Border Force are people I choose not to argue semantics with.

Because of that power, they also have an obligation to be more clear. As such they must change their FAQ as right now it very clearly states I don't need to contact them, and I might not be able to check my email to see the differing instruction.

They aren't god, and they wouldn't win in court as it stands. I try not to argue with them, and I certainly wouldn't argue with a foreign one, but given their disinterest I am certainly happy to take down a flag that we only put up out of tradition in the first place. It's not like anyone spots the flag and comes to check, there aren't even people around to do so.