Holding tanks in Turkey

Ariadne said:
95% of the people I have talked to over the last 6 weeks who were planning to visit Turkey will not be going. Shame because we wanted to go there but this legislation is incredibly difficult to with on most boats. Maybe when they see the Golden Goose leaving they'll get a grip on the situation, but the damage will have done by then.

We have no room for a grey water tank to cope with what we would produce, we have the largest holding tank we could fit (60lt for 4 people), no way of getting the grey to black tank other than down to toilet!!!!!!!! No way of pumping out the black tank, we work on the 3 miles out to sea system which works for us.

Its a good law to have, but not really very practical for vessels under 50 grt or under 20m who would have the storage space and pumping facilities on board. This will need a lot of joined up thinking to make it work - something our Turkish friends are not normally associated with.
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Even with 40 foot to play around with, I cannot see where we could store sufficient grey water. Each sink (3) would need to be plumbed in plus the shower pumps outlets......

We will have a couple of years in and around Greece, then see how the Turkish wanderers are fairing. What worries me is that everyone will leave Turkey and come to Greece - which is already too crowded! Oh well, I should have done this 20 years ago!
 
And so the discussion goes on and and on.........

Yes it is likely to be a pain in the pocket as well as the neck but it's their country and their rules even if the locals also bend those rules.

"Cutting the heads off other people's flowers doesn't make yours any taller"

We're heading for Turkey, not just because everyone "claims" to be heading the other way but because we can and we want to.... and if we have to put up with a few rules and regulations in order to do that, so be it. Just think of all those Turkish restaurants in the UK that have to "Put up with" our Health and Safety and Health and Hygene rules.

Smile more, it usually worries other people.
 
Having just arrived in a Marmaris marina this summer I am watching developments of this very closely and have a couple of comments-

Firstly, I already have a 70l black water tank which is used and operated 'as required' and have no intention of cutting up my boat to provide impractical Grey water tanks. If and when this law is enforced and the first fines are levied, I will just leave the area, probably accompanied by several hundred other vessels

Secondly I wonder if the Turkish businesses, large and small, that will be affected by an exodus of boats are making any noises to the appropriate authorities? So far it seems not. It will be interesting to know what the charter fleets are doing?

Derk
 
I suspect there is an ongoing battle between the "greens"
and the tourism entrepreneurs in this area.
I think this legislation is definitely aimed at the huge number
of gulets who the greens think just ignore the law.
The crux of it will be who has the final political clout to win.
I suspect that tourist income will be a higher priority than
environmental issues but, in the meantime, a lot of damage is being done.
Keep your heads down folks, this will probably slowly go away.
Cheers,
Chris
 
I forwarded the link above via the Cruising Association to one of their Hon Local Reps, who is the coordinator at Alanya Marina. I'm not going to copy exactly what he wrote, as it was sent to the CA and not to me personally. However, the gist is as follows:

'The article on the Noonsite website is not a translation of the new regulation but it is a good summary. Göcek Culture & Tourism Association have challenged the new regulation legally, result expected soon. Undersecretariat for the Maritime section objected formally to the governor of Mugla a few months ago, stating that that many details of the regulation are incorrect or illogical. The undersecretariat will not require any of the harbour masters and staff to enforce this regulation.

This regulation came into force on 1st August 2009 but there is no authority to enforce it for yachts. No part of the regulation is applicable to foreign flag yachts.

No more information is expected during the winter months but he will inform of any developments.'
 
Very interesting post from Vyv Cox. (a pity the forum does not let us show which post we are replying to).

We do indeed need to see just what will be enforced and how, and hope that new regulations will be sensibly applied, but I am fitting grey water tanks anyway, just because in the longer term we can expect all countries to require them, and it makes no sense to discharge all black water well out to sea, but continue discharging washing water with detergent in it in bays and harbours, when the detergents are probably far more damaging to marine life.
 
Norman_E said:
Very interesting post from Vyv Cox. (a pity the forum does not let us show which post we are replying to).

We do indeed need to see just what will be enforced and how, and hope that new regulations will be sensibly applied, but I am fitting grey water tanks anyway, just because in the longer term we can expect all countries to require them, and it makes no sense to discharge all black water well out to sea, but continue discharging washing water with detergent in it in bays and harbours, when the detergents are probably far more damaging to marine life.
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Lucky for those who a) have the room to fit grey tanks b) have the finance and ability to do so.
With two heads, three sinks and one shower we would find it nearly impossible to do the required plumbing and we just do not have the space to fit a monster grey tank. Our present holding tank was a big problem to fit and is only 25 lts.

Peter
 
Good afternoon:

Two clients from Netsel Marina and an owner of a local business appeared on the local TV to discuss the new law concerning Blue Cards along with telephone interviews with the Manager of Marmaris Yat Marina and Netsel Marina.

As this is a Turkish TV station most of the comments and questions were in Turkish however the presenter then translated the comments into Turkish for the benefit of the viewers. The business owner reports that everything said was translated except for a remark about the state of the sea bottoms in the local bays - actually outside of the topic.

A number of points was made:

a: this program requires a lot more coordination to ensure that all systems are compatible - if you buy an electric appliance there is no worry that it will fit the socket.

b. As reportedly has been done in Denmark a minimum size and age much be established as it is simply impossible to install a grey water tanks in 9 metre 35 year old yachts even with the best will in the world. The amount of grey water produced by such yachts are a drop in the bucket (ocean) compared with the day trip boats, large gulets and charter boats with X number of board.

c. Most people would like to obey the laws but those who impose the laws have a duty to write the laws in such a way that they can be obeyed. Law abiding people become very nervous when they know they cannot obey a law because of the way it has been prepared. There is nothing worse than knowing that you are open to attack by any public servant, policeman, coastguard officer who might take offense to your face or maybe because he is in a bad mood.

d. Not sure of details but there will be meetings next week between the authorities and the marina managers to discuss this subject. From what was understood the managers are aware of the harm this will do to their business and I am sure they would welcome imput as to what type of system should be installed.

e. It was emphasized that most yachtsman are in favour of the law provided it is sensible and possible to obey.

It appears that the "hornets nest" has been stirred up and I feel something reasonable will be produced in the end. Much more confident than I was a week ago.

Will advise when more news becomes available.

Cheers

Squeaky
 
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Club Marina have told me today that grey water is not to be discharged into the sea and the real show stopper for me : automatic bilge pumps have to be removed.

It looks like Turkey is off the list of possible places to berth now.

Whats it like in Matla, Cypruss?
 
Marsupial said:
Club Marina have told me today that grey water is not to be discharged into the sea and the real show stopper for me : automatic bilge pumps have to be removed.

It looks like Turkey is off the list of possible places to berth now.

Whats it like in Matla, Cypruss?
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Yeh what is it like in Cyprus cos thats where we are heading as well as Greek Islands.

Stuff Turkey

Peter
 
fined 7000 ytl

We are in Marmaris Turkey and have been fined 7000. ytl for discharging gray water(washing dishes) there is no difference between a 19 ton or 1000 ton ship for fines and no regulation issued with the transit log warning you. The fine for 18 ton 469. ytl. We have been sailing Turkey for while and this was the first we heard. We were also the only foreign flagged boat in the anchorage. Has any one else had this problem?


noonsite ..............
 
sailaboutvic said:
We are in Marmaris Turkey and have been fined 7000. ytl for discharging gray water(washing dishes) there is no difference between a 19 ton or 1000 ton ship for fines and no regulation issued with the transit log warning you. The fine for 18 ton 469. ytl. We have been sailing Turkey for while and this was the first we heard. We were also the only foreign flagged boat in the anchorage. Has any one else had this problem?


noonsite ..............[/QUOTE

If this is true ,this is suicide for the Turkish marina and charter industry, it will be imposible to comply with the regs on a boat less than 45ft. I for one would never disconect the bilge pumps ,also one of my showers discharge into the bilge, then gets pumped away

It would meen me removing a large water tank to comply. And I need water more than I need Turkey. As I have said before plastic 45 gallon drums tied to the mast with the bilge pumps discharging into them is the only way.
cheers bobt
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fine

sailaboutvic said:
We are in Marmaris Turkey and have been fined 7000. ytl for discharging gray water(washing dishes) there is no difference between a 19 ton or 1000 ton ship for fines and no regulation issued with the transit log warning you. The fine for 18 ton 469. ytl. We have been sailing Turkey for while and this was the first we heard. We were also the only foreign flagged boat in the anchorage. Has any one else had this problem?


noonsite ..............
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How about giving a bit more details about this fine. Where exactly were you in Marmaris?....when did this take place and how did the situation arise..ie was there a coastguard or other official there looking out for discharges 7K ytl sounds a lot of dosh,and it is nearly £3000.!!! who issued the fine and how was it collected?
According to the information in this subject on the forum,the new regulations will not be in place till next spring,so how were you caught?
 
James, we live in Fethiye, they have been monitoring ANYTHING that comes out of boats for years and ANY official can and will enforce a fine. Went to the marina this afternoon and asked about the grey water issue, all they said was you must pump everything out in the marina, "NOTHING from the boat is allowed into the sea", we take it that means black grey pink or white it makes no difference. 500 yards to the west on the town quay they are refurbishing Gullets for next season, you name it is in the sea . . .

We have been there and done that when it comes to "this law is a silly and it will blow over" - in our experience it wont. It has taken 4 years to get the deeds situation reviewed and guess what, the old silly law that caused all the trouble did nt go away it was renamed and is only enforced when a property is sold, not boaty I know but its a view of how the Turkish system "works".

We had planned to sail our boat here next year so its nearer home but not now.
 
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grey water

it ok to say it will blow over and it not in force , but it only take one guy to get out of bed the wrong way and some poor bugger will be fine.

found it on noonsite but it was dated 2005
 
sailaboutvic said:
We are in Marmaris Turkey and have been fined 7000. ytl for discharging gray water(washing dishes) there is no difference between a 19 ton or 1000 ton ship for fines and no regulation issued with the transit log warning you. The fine for 18 ton 469. ytl. We have been sailing Turkey for while and this was the first we heard. We were also the only foreign flagged boat in the anchorage. Has any one else had this problem?


noonsite ..............
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OK ...I thought that this had happened to you personally,I did not suss the significance of the "noonsite"

I had a look through the noonsite pages and found this article. It had been posted on 21 November 2005. Almost exactly 4 years ago.

As there do not seem to have been a spate of similar reports since then,can we assume that it was a one off incident,?by the lack of detail,it is not at all clear what the circumstances were which caused the fine.
Having said that,it is really up to the individual boat owner to adapt his boat systems as necessary in order to comply with any regs.The fact that gulets ,tripper boats etc dump their **** into the sea is neither here nor there,if the is a possibility of fining anyone,guess who will be first in line
 
Good morning:

We seem to be reaching the point in this post where the "wild and woolly" posts start arriving.

Reporting that automatic bilge pumps MUST be removed adds nothing to the discussion. There is no point in jumping on every unsubstaniated comment that someone might make at this point - I imagine that this is the type of comment that might well be advanced during a group discussion when speculating on how far this law could be pushed but that doesn't make it true or probable.

Nor is there any point if threatening to move your yacht/leave/or not visit Turkey unless this law is changed as that will do nothing to improve the situation. It might make the poster feel better but if you think about it what are you really accomplishing? Biting of your nose off to spite your face!!! Will the local economy really collapse if deprived of the few thousand euros you might spend annually. Of course, if one could organize the exodus of a few thousand it would be different.

The point behind the law is valid and where possible we should try to comply while trying to get the law written in such a way that this is possible.

Personally I hold out hope that this will be sorted out soon now that it has reached the attention of the authorities and marina managers. I remain convinced that this was all started by a few "zealots" in the Fethiye area when they discovered that a large houseboat (two levels) had been moored in a bay for a couple of years. I am sure that this discovery must have really got up their nose especially as it was owned by a wealthy person from Istanbul. Imagine their sense of triumph once they had forced it to move and I can see how easy it would be to decide to expand their area of interest to all of Mugla province. Of course, if they kept this within a limited circle they would not meet any resistance which might deprive them of their new found sense of power as no one can argue against motherhood or apple pie.

However this is now out in the public domain and resistance is being raised and I am optimistic that reason will prevail in the end.

As reported earlier this subject has moved to a much higher level with meetings arranged between various authorities and I will wait the outcome before jumping to conclusions.

Cheers

Squeaky

P.S - read about the seahorses to understand what motivates some people - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219617
 
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