Holding tanks in Turkey

Turkey grey water holding tanks

Dear Yotties

We have just received this reply to our enquiry on the subject of "grey water tanks in Turkey" from the boss of a flotilla company based in Bodrum and Fethiye

He says:-

"We have been following this very closely as the impact of this on our yachts will be incredible. It’s hard enough to find space in a 32 ft for a holding tank never mind a grey water tank.

Some big businesses and some environmental people and some high profile people have put backing behind this and have tried to get this into law. But this has been stopped because it goes beyond and against international laws that Turkey has signed and agreed to be binded too.

It will not come into force next year, they have to go back and rethink the whole idea. The other problem here in Turkey is that they only have 1 classification for a Boat, Yacht and Ship. Therefore a super tanker has the same rules as a small sailing yacht as a passenger liner to a fishing boat. But they are completely different craft and as you can imagine the water discharges are completely different."

Very useful information as we are just about to join the company as lead crew for their Fethiye flotilla and could do with out the added expence of fitting another tank. However, we can't all go on complaining about how mucky our favourite cruising ground, "the Med" is getting , without at least considering that by being there, we too are contributing to this mess, even if on a small scale... think globally, act locally and get the tanks fitted... just as long as there is somewhere to have them pumped out.

P.S. Have you ever wondered why the tomatoes taste so good in Greece..don't let anyone tell you it's the long hours of sunshine... no... you all know those smelly little buckets by the toilets, well that is to keep the paper out of the sewage system so they can pour the contents of said system straight onto the tomatoe fields.. yum.. and if you've seen Billy Connely's "Munchety Crunchety" joke you'll know what I'm on about.
 
Hmm. I thought that after reading all the input, that the LAWs had allready been passed. Especialy so as the BLUE CARDS have allready been issued(according to this forum/topic)
I will continue to watch and wait

Peter
 
lille_bee;2302888 P.S. Have you ever wondered why the tomatoes taste so good in Greece..don't let anyone tell you it's the long hours of sunshine... no... you all know those smelly little buckets by the toilets said:
Thanks for that lille_bee:-) I just bloody love Turkish tomatoes. I hope the next time I'm eating one/some your pungent post does not come to mind!
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just a thought

Would it be possible to put a filter on the outlet of the gray water system. I was thinking of the sort of bacterial systems fish tanks use.
 
Blue Card scheme for waste in Turkey

A friend (Brian on Chinook) who attended the meeting at Yat Marine penned the following note for me:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blue Card notes from SDF at Marmaris 30/10 2009

At the Skippers De-Stress the Blue Card scheme came under discussion again. Derya from Yacht Marine was able to answer questions after having spoken with a representative from Mugla District council. We will give the salient points and it is important to remember that as visiting yotties we can only hope to understand and comply with the new scheme, not try and change it. We have attached the text from the leaflet (already posted above) explaining the Blue Card scheme available in offices in the area.

1. All yachts, commercial and private, of all sizes, must comply with the Blue Card scheme. There is no lower limit in size or capacity given.

2. All yachts will have to purchase a Blue Card (70tl for life) in order to present it when pumping out. There is no link at present with the Transit Log but the intention is that there will be once the scheme is fully operative.

3. Only Black Tanks are required for the smaller yachts but the grey water must be put into the black tank, and hence pumped out. There are 27 pump out facilities in the Bodrum to Fethiye area in which the scheme is being initiated. A map showing the locations is intended to be printed.

4. It is intended to bring the scheme to fruition over two years.

5. There is no intention that marinas will police the scheme and prevent yachts from launching or leaving if they do not comply. At present even the harbourmasters are not directly involved in the scheme and they are the body that give permission to sail in Turkish Waters.

6. The fines proposed for non-compliance will be between 15 and 52 Turkish Lira times the tonnage. (eg. for a 12 ton boat it could be between 180 and 624tl). The scheme will be policed by the Guvenlik (Coast Guard) and at present a 3 mile limit will not be recognised for the purposes of dumping the black tank. The Blue Card will record the date and volume pumped out. The charges will be set by Government. (not yet set, but will be based on a cubic volume rate).

We let you make your own interpretation of all of this. There are clearly many 'what if'' questions which would create many problems for the scheme to function smoothly, Whether or not we consider the scheme unworkable we can only comply as best we can whilst sailing in these waters. It is the intention that the whole of Turkey will be included once this 'pilot scheme' has ironed out the problems. The scheme was first legislated 5 years ago but implementation had not been worked out.

The consensus of the SDF was that the scheme was good in principal, to get a cleaner environment, but the jury was still out on how the implementation could be successfully achieved. The majority of yachts represented at the meeting already had black tanks and would now have to consider the addition of grey water plumbing.

We are interested to know if anybody has similar experience from other Mediterranean (or other) countries.

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Try working it out:

If you were to sail around the affected coast, Bodrum to beyond Fethiye, you would log over 300 miles. One pump out station every 10-15 miles.

If it takes 15 minutes to go alongside, pump out and get away again (unlikely), then a pump station will process 40 boats a day. That's a maximum of 1000 boats pumped a day in 27 pump out stations.

There must be well in excess of 10,000 boats in the area.

Most boats blackwater tanks are around 50-75 litres. Grey water production from a crew of two must be around 20 litres, black water, say 5-10 litres?

Do you fancy spending your holiday queuing off the pumpout every two days?

And if you are a charter boat with 8 people on board, well...

A Turkish gulet with 12 guests on board, taking showers?

Note that the position is shifting, grey water tanks are not now required... it won't really be enforced...

But we do not fancy getting caught up in the bureaucracy.
 
rivonia said:
Hmm. I thought that after reading all the input, that the LAWs had allready been passed. Especialy so as the BLUE CARDS have allready been issued(according to this forum/topic)
I will continue to watch and wait

Peter
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Hi,

I understand the laws HAVE been passed and being British we tend to think that is the salient point and that is all there is to it. However, the point in many countries around the Med is not what the law is but whether it is being enforced in practice and how it is being enforced. The law has been in place for a few years but enforcement hasn't been contemplated until now.

Another eg is Greece where the law says that you must get your Cruising Log stamped in every port. Over time the Greeks have been practical about it and now only expect you to get the Log stamped about every 30 days.

Lets hope the Turkish authorities also take a pragmatic view. It certainly looks from a poster above that some rescinding is going on which would be good news.

Cheers,

Bob
 
bob234 said:
Hi,

I understand the laws HAVE been passed and being British we tend to think that is the salient point and that is all there is to it. However, the point in many countries around the Med is not what the law is but whether it is being enforced in practice and how it is being enforced. The law has been in place for a few years but enforcement hasn't been contemplated until now.

Another eg is Greece where the law says that you must get your Cruising Log stamped in every port. Over time the Greeks have been practical about it and now only expect you to get the Log stamped about every 30 days.

Lets hope the Turkish authorities also take a pragmatic view. It certainly looks from a poster above that some rescinding is going on which would be good news.

Cheers,

Bob
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Hi Bob, could'nt agrre with you more. On all my travels around the world we studied each counties laws and conversed with other Yachties and then with locals before final decisions were made. Unfortunatly with so many conflicting issues here and rumours we still shall watch and wait. More than likely give Turkey a miss

Peter
 
So far then its watch this space.

We won't be going to this area of Turkey at all, as we only have a 60 ltr holding tank that is discharged by gravity. No room for grey water for 2 adults & 2 kids in thus tank, let alone the logistics of getting the grey water there in the first place. We would need to pump out every day if we could, which means no cruising.

No BBQing of fish, what is disturbing music?

How do they view deck showers?
 
Ariadne said:
So far then its watch this space.

We won't be going to this area of Turkey at all, as we only have a 60 ltr holding tank that is discharged by gravity. No room for grey water for 2 adults & 2 kids in thus tank, let alone the logistics of getting the grey water there in the first place. We would need to pump out every day if we could, which means no cruising.

No BBQing of fish, what is disturbing music?

How do they view deck showers?
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Been watching this thread with mixed feelings. I think most people will ignore the requirements as they will effectively ruin cruising - couldn't/wouln't want to pump every day or so as I would want to avoid marinas.

That is until the first guy is fined, then there will suddenly be a mass exodus.

By the way - is there plenty of room in Messolonghi (spelling?) marina, or will I need to book and pay a deposit - July Aug 2010 and for the winter 2010-2011.
 
Whne I wash down my boat with sea water only am I breaking this law . Does the rain water falling on my boat have to be reclassified as grey

My engine exhaust is sea contaminated with C02 , CO , SOx a little oil , Carbon and other trace hydrocarbons . It currently discharges into the sea . Must all this go into the holding tank ?

Must I also now stop peeing over the rail ? Must I now jump in and pee and Sh*t in the water every time .
And heaven help you guys who have a water maker that requres a back flush now and again

Bemused - when will it stop
 
Chris_Robb said:
When the worst poluters stop poluting, Gullets etc - most yachties are pretty good, but I do know a number who have not got holding tanks and do polute. So blame them for making this situation in the first place.

Does the cap fit anyone out there?:rolleyes:
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Quite true about Gulets and day trip boats, but the worst polluters of the sea are coastal towns and villages. In some places new development has overwhelmed the old sewage systems, which cannot cope with the volume of waste, and are dumping raw sewage overflow to the sea (at night when they think it will not be noticed). If you doubt this, look at all the new developments in Gocek and wonder where their sewage ends up.
 
Norman_E said:
Quite true about Gulets and day trip boats, but the worst polluters of the sea are coastal towns and villages. In some places new development has overwhelmed the old sewage systems, which cannot cope with the volume of waste, and are dumping raw sewage overflow to the sea (at night when they think it will not be noticed). If you doubt this, look at all the new developments in Gocek and wonder where their sewage ends up.
Click to expand...

So its a case for the Turks of Physician, heal thy self......
 
95% of the people I have talked to over the last 6 weeks who were planning to visit Turkey will not be going. Shame because we wanted to go there but this legislation is incredibly difficult to with on most boats. Maybe when they see the Golden Goose leaving they'll get a grip on the situation, but the damage will have done by then.

We have no room for a grey water tank to cope with what we would produce, we have the largest holding tank we could fit (60lt for 4 people), no way of getting the grey to black tank other than down to toilet!!!!!!!! No way of pumping out the black tank, we work on the 3 miles out to sea system which works for us.

Its a good law to have, but not really very practical for vessels under 50 grt or under 20m who would have the storage space and pumping facilities on board. This will need a lot of joined up thinking to make it work - something our Turkish friends are not normally associated with.
 
Black and Grey water in other countries

This seems to be an "up and coming" issue all over. Doing a google search I found this:

In Europe the following applies:
http://www.noonsite.com/Members/val/R2009-01-16-1
which basically says that in Europe only Finland, Denmark (with exceptions), and Spain do not allow black water within 12 nautical miles, and no countries have any laws against grey water. Many countries have black water restrictions on inland waterways.

In the US the following applies:
http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/reviewpages/boatusf/project/info4c.htm
Federal law says that untreated sewage (even if it's been dosed with a deodorant product) can NOT be discharged in inland or coastal waters. This means the sewage from a portable toilet or a Type III holding tank can not be discharged unless you are in the ocean more than 3 miles offshore.

Federal law also states that if you have a holding tank with a "Y" valve allowing direct overboard discharge of untreated waste, it must be secured in the closed position while operating in all inland and coastal waters. Using a non-releasable wire tie, padlock, or removing the valve handle is considered adequate securing of the device.

Operating in a federally designated “No Discharge Area” further restricts what sewage you can discharge overboard. In these areas, there is no treated sewage discharge allowed from boats. That means if you have a Type I or II MSD, you are not allowed to discharge it while in those waters. There is a trend towards more local waters being designated as No Discharge Areas, so if you rely on using your Type I or II MSD, check a cruising guide before venturing into new waters.

What about grey water?

Grey water is the water discharging from your sink and shower, while black water is the sewage/water discharging from a toilet. In the United States, there are no federal requirements for the containment of grey water. However, in Canada, and in some inland lakes, there may be additional restrictions. Please check your local cruising guide or with your local state boating agency for more details. Are You In Compliance?
 
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