Holding tanks in Turkey

Moodyjim

Moodyjim

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 Dec 2004
Messages
1,103
Location
Home - Kent, Boats - Rye, East Sussex.
Visit site
Anyone up to speed with what's happening? there have been a couple of places on Mednet MyCA where they are not only legislating for holding tanks for black water but for grey as well. I would imagine a rapid exodus of liveaboards from those areas.
 
Turkish 'Blue Card' Regulations

I've put this on the 'Med Logs' Thread - I hadn't scrolled as far down as this one. We're currently based in Yacht Marine at Marmaris and the latest info I've gleaned is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pshipley
It would be a shame to ignore Turkey complete, remember this only applies in the Gocek Gulf.

No; I believe it's the whole of Mugla Province, which is from Bodrum all the way around to the Gulf of Fethiye/Gocek.

On a more positive note, it's my understasnding that whilst we might have to buy a 'Blue Card' during next season (about £30 - one off, not annually) the strict policing of these regulations is likely to take a while longer to be introduced. Two reasons for this: the Turkish Coastgaurd, who'll be policing it are not 'in the loop' as yet and secondly, with an estimated 8000+ applicable vessels in the region and only about twenty-odd pump out stations, given an average period of 3 days between pump-outs, each station would need to service 100+ vessels a day and that's impractical.

A final note, it is also my understanding that whilst grey water on 'small' vessels will need to be deposited in the black water tank, there is not a requirement for a seperate grey tank to be installed.
__________________
Whilst you can have anything you want in this life, you can't have everything that you want; so choose carefully.
 
BobnLesley said:
I've put this on the 'Med Logs' Thread - I hadn't scrolled as far down as this one. We're currently based in Yacht Marine at Marmaris and the latest info I've gleaned is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pshipley
It would be a shame to ignore Turkey complete, remember this only applies in the Gocek Gulf.

No; I believe it's the whole of Mugla Province, which is from Bodrum all the way around to the Gulf of Fethiye/Gocek.

On a more positive note, it's my understasnding that whilst we might have to buy a 'Blue Card' during next season (about £30 - one off, not annually) the strict policing of these regulations is likely to take a while longer to be introduced. Two reasons for this: the Turkish Coastgaurd, who'll be policing it are not 'in the loop' as yet and secondly, with an estimated 8000+ applicable vessels in the region and only about twenty-odd pump out stations, given an average period of 3 days between pump-outs, each station would need to service 100+ vessels a day and that's impractical.

A final note, it is also my understanding that whilst grey water on 'small' vessels will need to be deposited in the black water tank, there is not a requirement for a seperate grey tank to be installed.
__________________
Whilst you can have anything you want in this life, you can't have everything that you want; so choose carefully.
Click to expand...

How on earth can grey water be pumped into the black water tank and even if you had the facilities (space/piping/pump) to do it the holding tank would be full very very quickly indeed. So sorry but with all these reg's coming into force we shall avoid Turkey like the plague. However we shall keep watching to see.

Peter
 
BobnLesley said:
A final note, it is also my understanding that whilst grey water on 'small' vessels will need to be deposited in the black water tank, there is not a requirement for a seperate grey tank to be installed.
Click to expand...

Logically, you need the same size grey tank as your fresh water tank. The grey water tank on my motorhome is about 1.5 times the water capacity. The new black water tank on my boat will be 47 litres. My water capacity is about 250 litres. It would be absolutely impossible for me to fit a grey water tank of this size.
 
BobnLesley said:
I've put this on the 'Med Logs' Thread - I hadn't scrolled as far down as this one. We're currently based in Yacht Marine at Marmaris and the latest info I've gleaned is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pshipley
It would be a shame to ignore Turkey complete, remember this only applies in the Gocek Gulf.

No; I believe it's the whole of Mugla Province, which is from Bodrum all the way around to the Gulf of Fethiye/Gocek.

On a more positive note, it's my understasnding that whilst we might have to buy a 'Blue Card' during next season (about £30 - one off, not annually) the strict policing of these regulations is likely to take a while longer to be introduced. Two reasons for this: the Turkish Coastgaurd, who'll be policing it are not 'in the loop' as yet and secondly, with an estimated 8000+ applicable vessels in the region and only about twenty-odd pump out stations, given an average period of 3 days between pump-outs, each station would need to service 100+ vessels a day and that's impractical.

A final note, it is also my understanding that whilst grey water on 'small' vessels will need to be deposited in the black water tank, there is not a requirement for a seperate grey tank to be installed.
__________________
Whilst you can have anything you want in this life, you can't have everything that you want; so choose carefully.
Click to expand...

Costs of pumping out will also have to be paid for, any idea how much? The queues would be intollerable even if they had many mor facilities, as there would be peak times for pump out - ie Morning.

So if you have to move every 3 days to a pump out station, what is to stop you going out to sea as we would do now, and dump a couple of miles out, or is that regulated now as well.

If it comes into real force, I would see keeping a boat there would be intolerable.
 
TO BOB N LESLEY Where are you getting your info from as it would appear not to be factual at all. We all as live aboards/cruisers rely to some extent on web sites like this one for FACTUAL INPUT.

Peter
 
Date of Decision Decision No.
: 03.07.2009 : 178
Click to expand...


First that I have heard of it too, our marina has a big notice printed out in the office regarding the Black water regs, but nothing about these Grey water regs.

Was in Turkey just three weeks ago sailing (Yalikavak, Bodrum Peninsula, Mugla) We were not informed about any new directives. As it was pay out time, marina fees, lift and launch, antifoul etc and I had my wallet out, I am sure that they would have asked for the extra £30 for the Blue card at the same time.

Not saying it is not true, just saying not been told about it, and the marrina office in the past appeard to be clued up.

Will have to wait and see.

Practically for most it will be a real problem, I have a way of working around it as I have two water tanks (2x150L), one up front and one right at the rear under the bed, could re-pipe the aft tank as the Grey water one if needs be, would need an extra pump for the galley sink though.

However do not intend to think any more about it until I hear that this directive is actualy in force.

After all plenty of water of all colours from villages and beach bars freely flowing into the oggin all around the coast, will these also have holding tanks and suction trucks pumping them out every day.

Will wait and see
 
Good morning:

I have not heard concerning this subject beyond this forum and asked at the marina office who also have not heard anything.

I wonder if this is not all about the massive houseboat that was moored in a bay in the Fethiye Gult for a couple of years until some activist began causing trouble because it was discharging direct in the sea - probably fueled by jealousy as much as concern for the sea. There was a massive hullabuloo which eventually forced the owner to move the houseboat - think it is now moored on the outer wall at Albatross Marina in Marmaris.

I suspect that someone used a sledge hammer to crack a nut and that the law will eventually be repealed or just ignored.

I doubt that the authorities will want to kill the goose that lays golden eggs once they realize what effect this law might have.

Personally I will relax and wait until something much more substantial happens however this is a good subject in the event I have nothing else to worry about or to occupy my time.

Cheers

Squeaky
 
grey water tanks

Hi Guys I founds this , any help???


Republic of Turkey Governorship of Mugla
Provincial Local Environmental Commission
Date of Decision Decision No.
: 03.07.2009 : 178
DECISION OF THE LOCAL ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION
The Local Environmental Commission headed by Governor Dr. Ahmet ALTIPARMAK convened on Friday, 03.07.2009,10:00 a.m. to discuss the items on the agenda.
AGENDA:
A-) Controlling Waste Generated from Sea Vessels
DECISION:
A -) For prohibiting marine pollution in our province, the following decisions - which are based on the recommendations listed in the report of the Sub Commission formed in accordance with the Article C of the Local Environmental Commission Decision No. 177 dated 24/06/2009- have been identified to apply to all national and foreign flagships within Mugla Province marine areas and inland waters.
1 - The cards will be designed by the Provincial Directorate of Environment and Forestry and will be printed in collaboration with the related public offices and the NGOs.
2 - The issuing and the delivery of the cards to the ships will be performed by the Port Authorities, Customs Guard Directorates, Environmental Protection Agency for Special Areas (EPASA) Directorate in special protection areas, waste acceptance facilities, marina offices, pump-out boats and by the mobile officer teams that will be formed.
3 - In case the said cards have not been procured by the operators of ships, the Port Authorities will refuse sea pass and not issue sea transit licenses to those ships.
4 - 3 digital card readers will be placed at the Coast Guard Commands, 1 digital card reader will be placed at the Provincial Environment and Forestry Directorate and 1 digital card reader will be placed at EPASA Directorate.
5 - Card issuance devices will be placed at the Port Authorities, Customs Guard Directorates, marinas, waste acceptance facilities, pump-out boats and books will be kept for waste acceptance at waste disposal facilities.
6- The waste generators are obliged to pay the waste transfer fee to the licensed waste acceptance units, and those who transfer waste are obliged to pay the disposal fee to the disposal units according to the Official Notice No. 26284 that entered into force on September 9, 2006 "Fees and Principles to be applied as part of the By-Law for Collecting and Controlling Waste from Ships".
7 - Waste water from hand washing basins and showers must necessarily be connected to waste water tanks and waste water should not be discharged directly into the sea. This feature should be checked by the Port Authorities as part of the surveys conducted for issuing Certificates of Seaworthiness and in case the requirement is not met, the Certificate will not be issued and/or a penalty will be imposed in accordance with the Environment Law No. 2872.
8 - For the boats with automatic float switch bilge discharge systems, the operators of the boats will be held responsible and be subject to penalty in case of any discharge of bilge water into the sea.
9 - Coloring tablets in accordance with the Environment and Health regulation will be placed in waste water tanks to avoid and identify any uncontrolled discharge of waste water by the ships during their open sea transits.
10 - Marinas, ports, fisherman shelters, boat stopover locations and municipalities should be involved in the construction of waste transfer and disposal units and inadequacies should urgently be eliminated.
11- Article C of the Local Environmental Commission Decision No. 141 dated 25/05/2006 will be annulled.
The decisions above have been identified unanimously.
All individuals are obliged to obey the principles and procedures determined for protecting the environmental values and biodiversity of the Fethiye - Gocek Special Protection Region and prohibiting pollution.
All boats entering the Gocek Gulf and the Gocek-Dalaman Bays are obliged to submit their grey/black water and bilge water to the Common Waste Acceptance Facility located on the Gocek Gulf or to the Pump out Boat. Under no circumstances waste water can be discharged into the sea.
All boats entering the Gocek Gulf and the Gocek-Dalaman Bays are obliged to hold the Blue Card issued as part of the Blue Card Program initiated by the Mugla Provincial Environment and Forestry Directorate. The boats are obliged to present the Blue Card each time they submit waste and they are obliged to declare the Blue Card to the authorized officers during controls.
 
water pollution in turkey

good day to all

some info from our agents in turkey but please note that this is for a ships !
i am not sure, how the turkish authorities look at the boats on the same issue


qte
Please note that the Turkish authorities are very sensitive and aggressve on all issues concerning water pollution in the territorial waters.
For this reason we kindly ask you to refrain 100% from disposing any sort of waters when in Turkish ports, at anchorage or transiting the Turkish waters.
Our agency strongly advises you not to dispose of any water, no matter how clean you feel that water is.
This includes but is not limited to:
- Kitchen water
- Food stuff
- Bilge water
- Cargo cleaning water
- Toilet water
- Deck cleaning water
- Filtered and recycled water
The fines for such disposals can reach amounts up to Usd 300,000.- or more.

There are constantly undercover patrol boats, staff and informants who take any possible reason to fine vessels wether justified or unjustifed.
The procedure happens by having environment protection agency people taking samples and photos of the vessel disposing water.
They than board the vessel, take sample water that is than compared with the water they took as evidence from the sea.
The samples + pictures and film allow them to arrest the vessel until the fine is paid. Not paying the fine causes the vessel to remain arrested until the monies are paid.
Letter of guarantee or promisory notes are not accepted.

Many thanks to inform all your crew about this issue and acknowledge receipt and full understanding of this message.
unqte

regards



www.neatcss.com
 
Good afternoon:

Shortly after my earlier post of this morning I attended a "Tea & Talk" meeting between the clients and management of Netsel Marina which indicated I had spoken to the wrong person about this subject.

Not only did the management know about this but they had invited someone from the organization charged with enforcing these regulations to explain them and answer questions.

Apparently from 1 Mar 2010 all yachts will have to have both gray and black water tanks and obtain in "Blue" card which will contain all details of the yacht including owner, skipper, crew and a lot of other detail.

All liquid from these tanks will have to be deposed of at authorized points where the amount discharged will be recorded on these cards. If the amount of discharge does not represent a certain amount fines will be in order. The speaker used the figure of 50 litres per person per day but backed off when there were howls of protest from the audience.

There were a lot of questions but very little in the way of solid responses from the speaker who seemed to rely on the excuse that he was not responsible for the law only trying to explain it.

When asked "how many small yachts presently have grey water tanks or room to install them?" he suggested that probably about 60 % did. A show of hands indicated that only two yachts of the 30 some represented had such tanks.

When speaking to the speaker after the meeting he said that the rules were applicable only in Mugla province (Bodrum to Fethiye) and were designed to prevent gulets and large motor boats from discharging liquids at sea and that I had nothing to worry about as the law would not be enforced for small yachts such as mine.

When it was suggested that the law should have mentioned the lower limit or number of crew which would not be subject to this law, he avoided a response by once again saying he had nothing to do with creating the law only enforcing it.

I suggested this would be like the motorcycle and helmet law - on the books but not enforced unless the coppers were in a bad mood but making anyone complying with this law feel stupid for complying while everyone else including the police ignored it. I suggested this created a real minefield where one would become a criminal if not complying with a law that was totally unenforceable and subject to punishment if any of the agencies involved had a bad day and felt like dishing out fines. The reply was along the lines of "How long have you been in Turkey? You must know how things are done here".

I still believe this law was a result of the discovery that a large houseboat had been moored in a bay in the Fethiye Gulf for several years. The Governor of Mugla is located many miles from the coast and probably relied on the advise from some environmental activist from Fethiye area and hopefully common sense will eventually prevail when someone starts looking in to the detail.

Does anyone on this forum remember the late 80's when the marina in Kusadasi sealed all seacocks and put tablets in the tanks forcing everyone to go ashore to wash dishes etc. Didn't last long as soon there were no yachts left. A suddent exodus from Marmaris would bring howls of outrage from the locals who rely on yachts for a living.

Hopefully it will not come to that.

Cheers

Squeak
 
Unfortunately I can't find the two originals that I saw but Sailaboutvic has one of them. I think (but not quite sure) there are two areas at present and in the one above it seems to be aimed at commercial (i.e. charter boats) but I don't see why that should just be the case as the notice refers to all national and foreign flagged boats/ships - which we are!
 
As Squeaky said there are the laws as they are written
and the laws that are never applied unless you get up somebody's nose.
I, for one, quite like that approach. Nice people get away
with minor infractions because nobody got hurt.
Loud-mouthed, know-it-alls get fined.
Makes sense to me :)
Cheers,
Chris
 
rivonia said:
TO BOB N LESLEY Where are you getting your info from as it would appear not to be factual at all. We all as live aboards/cruisers rely to some extent on web sites like this one for FACTUAL INPUT.

Peter
Click to expand...

Why do you have the opinion that Bob n Lesley's input 'appears not to be factual'? Do you know that for a fact? :p

Unfortunately the information is factual. Apparently the legislation has been in place for a few years and applies to the whole of Turkey but not enforced (probably because a method had not been established and was not enforceable). The current move to enforce is beween Bodrum and Fethiye (as has been said).

We had a talk from our local customs agent at Marmaris Yacht Marina who, together with the marina manager/owner had a meeting with someone from the relevant government body to try to get more information for us (we were told what that body was but I'm sorry I can't remember the name). We have been given a copy of the legislation and I see that a poster has quoted it in an earlier post.

As a previous poster has pointed out the legislation will be impractical to enforce in a literal sense for some time. There might be spot checks but the feeling is that you'd better not get caught dumping your grey water now in any case, esp in the Gocek/Fethiye Bay which apparently has a big seawater pollution problem. The pollution goes beyond the issue of one houseboat.

We were told that the law will be policed by the coastguard (and not, for example, harbour masters) but that the coastguard will not be boarding boats for inspection to see if grey tanks have been installed. I am sure it will all depend on the inclination and mood of individual coastguard personnel and perhaps on how keen the local authorities are in generating income.

We will probably skip that bay next year until we hear what is happening in practice. It has been said though that a cruising boat has already been stopped in that bay and fined for not having a blue card (they are already available), but that could be just anecdotal arising from natural fear.

So, clear as mud!

Cheers,

Bob
 
every time I consider moving to Turkey I read something like this thread and stay in Greece.
I can't imagine any sub 4o footer having space to fit a grey water tank without rebuilding the damn boat.certainly no way in my 38 ft mobo.
 
In my replys/questions no offence is ever intended. My comment re Bob n Lesley was because they constantly stated ''we/i beleive and no other staement was in evidence to back up what they were implying. A law is a law,

Peter
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top