holding tanks in spainish waters

[lee]

hi
I am casting off for the med this summer and i have heard a rumour that it has now been made compulsory for boats in spainish waters to have holding tanks, and must carry the newest model liferaft on board. Any info on this would be greatly appreciated as i would not like to get there and then find out. Thank you.

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[Ric]

I have not heard that, and I was sailing in Spain all last summer and spoke to a lot of liveaboards there. If they are introducing legislation, then I expect it will be only for new build boats.

By the way it is long overdue legislation. Last summer the water temp in the small enclosed calas, which are popular sheltered anchorages, was at times 35 degrees. That's ideal temp for incubating sewage. I had bad ear infections all summer, and walking around Palma it seemed there were a lot of other people with cotton wool in their ears...

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[lezgar]

Spanish law

Art. 2 de la Orden Ministerial FOM/1144/2003 de 28 de abril por la que se regulan los equipos de seguridad salvamento, contra incendios, navegación y prevención de vertidos por aguas sucias, que deben llevar a bordo las embarcaciones de recreo (B.O.E. del 12 de Mayo)

a) A todas las embarcaciones de recreo comprendidas en el artículo 2 del Real Decreto 1434/99, de 10 de septiembre, matriculadas o que se pretendan matricular en España, así como a las embarcaciones de matrícula de otros países que, de conformidad con la legislación vigente, deseen desarrollar una actividad con fines comerciales en aguas marítimas en las que España ejerce soberanía, derechos soberanos o jurisdicción.



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[Anonymous]

Ric, do you think that this level of pollution would be too great for a watermaker? What would one do - water in a harbour/marina every few days, or sail out a bit for a few hours, losing a decent anchoring spot and a good hold? I'm trying to get my head round all the practicalities of equipment needed, cost of moorings, lifestyle, etc. and anchoring off, in the company of like-minded liveaboards appeals greatly as long as my dear wife doesn't have to scrimp on water and power.

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[Anonymous]

Could you post the gist of that in English?

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[Ric]

Lemain, the level of pollution will be fine for a watermaker. You will be able to run it in most anchorages without problem. Bacteria are huge compared to salt molecules and will be filtered out. As we discussed on another thread, your big danger to a watermaker is diesel and oil. Most people advise against running a watermaker in a closed marina (but then you have shore water so don't need it) because of oil and diesel. But all but a very few anchorages you should not have any problem at all. Definitely get one - they are a huge boon.

As for the Spanish translation, it really does not answer the posters question, because there is not enough of it to mean anything cogent. Perhaps if he posted the whole article it would be clearer.

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[lee]

thanks ric its helped put my mind at rest

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[lezgar]

if your boat isn´t Spanish registered or you are not going to do business with your boat in Spain my previous post is enough because the holding tank is only mandatory for Spanish registered boats and boats that going to do business in Spanish territorial waters.

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[Ric]

Well what you have posted isn't enough to confirm that, but I don't doubt that you are correct.

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[Anonymous]

So aside from one's own desire to be kind to the environment, is there no need to have a holding tank anywhere in the Mediterranean as a visiting British yacht not being used for commercial work or charter?

Holding tanks are bulky, heavy, costly, require maintenance and emptying and may involve more complicated toilets than an ordinary direct flush sea toilet. So one has to feel quite strongly about the issue to elect to have that facility unless it is mandatory. I feel less inclined to if everyone else is dumping their raw sewage straight into the sea. We try to use the shore facilities for solids, wherever possible, and that is our compromise. Of course it's not so bad in the UK where we get a good clean out with the tide twice a day.

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[kesey]

Holding tanks are mandatory in Turkey. The Turks have a weird aversion to people messing up their harbours and sea-shore. For the sake of peace and quiet I would certainly fit a holding tank before you go there.

While tanks are a pain in the rear-end, odd enough fact that, they are not as bad as made out to be. The Americans get all very hot and bothered about human waste and holding tanks, but have no problem in letting some foul industry absolutely destroy everything in sight. It is eminently probable that Europe will follow the Americans down the holding tank route sooner rather than later, hopefully without the gratuitous hypocrisy.

All things being equal, if I were going to cruise the Med over a longish period, I would fit a tank. Use it to store waste until you are offshore 3 or more miles, and then arrivaderci Roma. As the man said, the job's not finished until the paperwork's done. When offshore, just use the holding tank as part of the piping system.

One could choose to avoid Turkey of course. That would be a major loss as it is a very beautiful place. Great food, great people, clean water, phenomenal sights to see..



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[lee]

so you only need a holding tank if your a spainish registered boat, but if your in spain for a certain length of time,(im not sure how long it is though) you have to register your boat in spain so would that not mean you come under there rules and need a holding tank.



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[lezgar]

If you want to register a boat in Spain you need first meet the Spanish regulations including safety and the holding tank. You have to pass a inspection before the register and every 5 years. ;and you have to have a Spanish Certificate of Competence or ask for the validation of the International Certificate of Competence.
You can find more information (in Spanish) here http://www.mfom.es/marinamercante/
http://www.eurocontrol.es/servicios/inspeccion_embarcaciones.htm

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[lezgar]

I forgot that if your boat is more of 7.5 meters long you have to pay 12% of a tax called "impuesto sobre determinados medios de transporte". The ammount to pay isn't from the bill of sale but a list of values that the Spanish law have.

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[Anonymous]

Is this a general tax or one on boats that don't comply with the holding tanks regulations? Sorry, but I only understand a few words of Spanish and not enough to interpret the finer meaning of regulations, etc.

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[lezgar]

Is a general tax and all boats +7.5 meters have to pay. If you not comply with the demanding Spanish regulations you can't register your boat in Spain and if your boat is registered and you fail the 5 years inspection you can't go to the see with your boat until correct the faults. Is something similar to the MOT and the disk for cars in UK and the inspection have to be done out of the water.

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[rickwat]

They're not that heavy empty which they will be when you're out of harbour. I had one tailor- made by Lee Sanitation to maximise space available. Not cheap at £400 or so(23Gal) but special plastic (Polyester?) and properly baffled with all pipe connections on tank. The valves and pipe hike the price but with careful planning you should be able to minimise intrusion. Bliss now anywhere and a warm glow knowing I'm saving the planet.

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[jeanne]

I am pleased to see good information, from guys like like Lezgar, on the forum; thats what we are here for. For my own part, I can say that I have been in Spanish waters for six months or so, and have had my papers checked by the Guardia twice, and there was no interest in anything other than the boats ownership. If the owner was not aboard, perhaps they would have been looking to see if it was under charter. Then all the laws that Lezgar mentioned would apply.
After a few months in the country, I am not yet qualified to generalise, but to me the Spanish have a more practical approach to laws than Northern Europeans, If there is a clear benefit to everyone from their enforcement, they will enforce them. If they are a bureaucrats 'wishlist', and ban something which has been established practice, they keep them in reserve.

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[lezgar]

This is the law about 12% tax "impuesto sobre especial medios de transporte"
http://www.jcyl.es:8080/iguia/fuentes/tr/legislacion/transporte/l38-1992.htm
You don´t have to pay if you are changing the register of your boat from Uk to Spain and you ask for the change no late 1 month after became Spanish resident.
This is the form that you have to do http://www.aeat.es/formularios/captura/565e/mod565e.pdf

You can find a lot information (in spanish) about the types of Spanish Certificate of Competence here http://www.titulosnauticos.net/

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[alant]

Are UK flagged yachts used for charter, liable for these regulations? Would they have to fit holding tanks, or do they have to be in Spain for a certain period for this?

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