Hobie Cat versus Dinghy qualities

[Seajet]

Hi Dave,

no apolgies necessary at all, I put my case too strongly I'm sure.

What I would say is that with a dinghy cat capsize is a genuine concern as it's at the very least a right pain facing difficulty and not too far off downright dangerous; with a monohull one usually picks the boat up, laughs, gets going to let her drain then carries on.

A point not mentioned yet which I meant to is ankle hoop /straps; I know from experience these are albut essential on fast mono and cat dinghies as one needs to keep the trim bows up while on the wire, but I've never seen a surer recipe for a broken ankle which might be a tad awkward let alone painful; I long since decided non-slip tape on the gunwhales only, if lost grip meant lost speed or a capsize, so be it...

 

[Iain C]

... tippy Wayfarers!!!

Huh? "Tippy" and "Wayfarer" in the same sentence???

 

[Scillypete]

The downside to trailing a cat wherever you want to sail to my mind would be much the same as with a wayfarer, having to rig it to go and de-rig to go home again makes for lots of hard work. Far better to keep it in a club yard somewhere already rigged and ready to go if you can. More of a young mans game that I have grown out of now and just have a blast when on holiday somewhere hot.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Huh? "Tippy" and "Wayfarer" in the same sentence???

Exactly. But that's my wife! Slightly tricky to accept sometimes.

 

[westernman]

I used to single hand a Hobie FX one. Very fast. Very wet in anything other than a flat calm. In fact wetter than a windsurfer. I once clocked an average of 16 knots over 3/4 hour trip three up with the symmetric flying.

If you don't fall in on a windsurfer, you only get wet up to the waist. On a FX one, the spray comes at you full on in the face by the bucket load.

Can be tricky to right after a capsize - you need to practice the right technique. You have to use the wind on the trampoline to help you. In anything other than calm conditions at our club we used to tie the end of the mainsheet to the trapeze harness to ensure we did not get separated from the boat in the event of a capsize. Even in moderate conditions it will drift downwind on its side at a fair rate thanks to the trampoline.

I needed rescuing once. I capsized and fell on to the mainsail completely shredding it.

 

[vyv_cox]

We raced Hobie 16s for years, owned four in all. Then had two Dart 18s, then a Prindle 18 followed by a Prindle 18-2. Of them all the 18-2 was the most sophisticated and great for a lighter couple, which we were. The Hobie was by far the most enjoyable, 35 sq ft more sail area than a Dart with 2 ft less length. A real blast of a boat but took time to learn, which was why it was selected as the youth training cat. For me the Dart was worst by far, single trapeze and least powerful, easy to sail which explains its popularity.

 

[Iain C]

There is a perception in performance dinghy circles that a cat is overly flattering to it's crew. Pretty much anyone with basic experience can get in a cat and make it go very fast...it does not actually need much skill. In fact, there's a photo on our club website at the mo of a cat going quite fast downwind with no-one on board...case proven. Put that same person on a 49er or 14 and they won't get very far at all. As has already been pointed out, if you think you steer a performance skiff with just the rudder, you are going to be dissapointed. Car parallel...someone hanging the tail out on a modern Nissan Skyline does not compare to the driver doing it in an old school 911. Anyone can do the former...it's pretty much uncrashable unless you do something really daft.

Obviously to race a cat does need that extra bit of skill, and some skills unique to cat sailing, and there are cats at the top of the performance league which do take a lot of skill indeed. That said, they do have their place offering fast, accessible sailing, and one of my most memorable sails ever was in a knackered rented hobie in Barbados in a lot of wind with flying fish trying jumping between the hulls and trying to avoid turtles!

 

[rich]

At the last count there were 44 hobies on the beach here in Jersey,the largest group in the UK,with racing every other Sunday, the two man team that seem to win most races have a combined age of 145

View attachment 41861

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks to all the further contributions. Really useful. I've now got the perspective I needed. Personally I could get into cat sailing but the rest of my life says "no!", and I get my thrills and spills windsurfing anyhow. But on holiday if I get the chance to rent a Hobie I will......definitely. It is big grin sailing!

 

[Alan_B]

There is a perception in performance dinghy circles that a cat is overly flattering to it's crew. Pretty much anyone with basic experience can get in a cat and make it go very fast...it does not actually need much skill. In fact, there's a photo on our club website at the mo of a cat going quite fast downwind with no-one on board...case proven. Put that same person on a 49er or 14 and they won't get very far at all. As has already been pointed out, if you think you steer a performance skiff with just the rudder, you are going to be dissapointed. Car parallel...someone hanging the tail out on a modern Nissan Skyline does not compare to the driver doing it in an old school 911. Anyone can do the former...it's pretty much uncrashable unless you do something really daft.

Obviously to race a cat does need that extra bit of skill, and some skills unique to cat sailing, and there are cats at the top of the performance league which do take a lot of skill indeed. That said, they do have their place offering fast, accessible sailing, and one of my most memorable sails ever was in a knackered rented hobie in Barbados in a lot of wind with flying fish trying jumping between the hulls and trying to avoid turtles!

I can hang the tail in my mid 90s MR2 Turbo. Mid engined, RWD, a 20 year old LSD and 270bhp on tap.

Should I buy a hobie cat then?

 

[markhomer]

Nah buy a stealth , whole different ball game and fun


Where sailing on one hull is the norm !

 

[vyv_cox]

Obviously to race a cat does need that extra bit of skill, and some skills unique to cat sailing.

When we first began racing hobie 16s we had quite a bit of experience racing Enterprise and Fireball, with moderate success. It was quite galling therefore to be consistently at the back of the fleet for quite some time. In our first Nationals we were 28th, which must have been close to last. By the time we stopped racing we were normally 4th or 5th but it took some years and lots of practice to get there.

Yes, cats go fast but don't be fooled by thinking you will beat all the others - they are going faster!

 

[Greenheart]

It was fascinating watching very varied handicap racing the other day, with biggish cats including awesome ex-Olympic Tornados amongst 49ers and just one lonely little foiling Moth...

...lonely because it was fairly far ahead!

 

[Seajet]

I wonder what a foiler Moth feels like on the tiller ? I'd guess a little dead requiring coarse inputs until speed picks up ?

The big drawback I found with the Dart 18 was that it behaved like a machine, sure it went where I pointed very efficiently but it didn't talk to me at all, no feedback; I might as well have been playing a computer game without ' force feedback '...

 

[Seajet]

Continuing that train of thought, I wonder if a 2 seat trainer version of the Foiler Moth will ever be possible ?

Same goes for the Int Canoe - which a lot of Foiler Moth owners have migrated from - it would be wonderful to have a trainer version to take people out on.

The same evolution happened with the Harrier and other high performance aircraft, for quite a few years pilots had to go by books and observation then jump in and go solo, then eventually 2 seaters were developed which made life a lot easier.

It might seem a flight of fancy now to have a 2 seat Foiler Moth, but not long ago the solo job would have been science fiction; a two seater would be a fantastic marketing tool for the builders too...

 

[Iain C]

Alan B...if your tail out antics were in a mark 2, presumably Jap import with a spattering of HKS kit in the engine bay, you are clearly a driving god and should set your sights far higher than one of those sailing rafts. Twitchy buggers on the limit, those mark 2s

Dan...moths are now getting outrageously fast, in so much as handicap racing them against conventional boats is almost a bit pointless. I was club racing my 49er the other Wednesday evening in breeze that suited us well (that means pretty breezy as we are a bit heavy) and we got lapped by a Moth after probably 30mins of racing. Ok so it was an RTC course that suited the Moth better, but that's still going some!

Seajet...not sure a dual control Moth would really achieve anything. Bear in mind the boat weighs 30kg, you're just doubling the lard massively. It would feel very different when the instructor got out (like a glider!). Tiller does feel dead until the boat is foiling, but if you've sailed an osprey (or an Andersen 22 haha) I'd reckon you'd probably achieve flight after 30 mins of swimming round it. It's like a bicycle...going slowly and getting going are the trickiest bits!

 

[Alan_B]

Alan B...if your tail out antics were in a mark 2, presumably Jap import with a spattering of HKS kit in the engine bay, you are clearly a driving god and should set your sights far higher than one of those sailing rafts. Twitchy buggers on the limit, those mark 2s

Yup it's a mk2 with some HKS, Berk and Apexi goodies. Soon to be with another .2 bar of boost too

I'm seriously considering a cheap dinghy for messing about in. Doubt the budget will stretch to much, maybe an old laser or something. Having learnt to sail in a flying fifteen and buying a hunter europa soon after, I want something cheap and cheerful to mess about in and learn.

 

[Iain C]

Pah! Turbos = cheating ;-)

 

[Hurricane]

I used to single hand a Hobie FX one. Very fast. Very wet in anything other than a flat calm. In fact wetter than a windsurfer. I once clocked an average of 16 knots over 3/4 hour trip three up with the symmetric flying.

If you don't fall in on a windsurfer, you only get wet up to the waist. On a FX one, the spray comes at you full on in the face by the bucket load.

Can be tricky to right after a capsize - you need to practice the right technique. You have to use the wind on the trampoline to help you. In anything other than calm conditions at our club we used to tie the end of the mainsheet to the trapeze harness to ensure we did not get separated from the boat in the event of a capsize. Even in moderate conditions it will drift downwind on its side at a fair rate thanks to the trampoline.

I needed rescuing once. I capsized and fell on to the mainsail completely shredding it.

I agree
I've had lots of different Cats - the Hobie 16 is very tame in comparison to other classes.
I've owned a Dart 15, Dart 18, two Hurricanes (hence my forum name), a Firebird and for fun a Hobie FX one

I raced the FX One at Datchet Water SC where we sailed them as single mainsail and spinnaker (single handed)
A real handful but great fun
We raced with Stealths rigged in a similar format.

Out of the above, the Hurricane was/is my best boat - the FX One comes a close second with the Firebird being probably the worst boat I've ever owned.

Here is a couple of pics of my Hurricane - called "Splat"

 

[davidej]

GET a Dart