Hobie Cat versus Dinghy qualities

[FairweatherDave]

I'm not an experienced dinghy sailor but enjoy messing about in our Wayfarer, and I am an experienced windsurfer too. However I had never sailed a Hobie Cat until last week on holiday and have to say I loved it. It was a real eye opener. We were out in very choppy swelll in a force 4 to 5 and I was simply blasting about, cutting through the water and surfing waves with ease. I was wary of capsizing or digging in the leeward hull nose but really felt very safe yet blasting about at speed. It was a Hobie Wave which is 13ft long I think and had a single battened mainsail that seemed perfect for the conditions. No trapeze just sitting right out at the back with a big grin. I was just curious if any one wanted to summarize the qualities of Hobies generally and suggest why you don't see more of them in Chichester. Are they regarded as more an open sea boat where space is less of an issue? I do remember seeing several at Shoreham. Thanks if anyone wants to educate me!

 

[John the kiwi]

Sniff! American plastic! Sniff!
California no less! Even worse.
Often bought by complete newbies to sailing too.
I admit i was prejudiced against Hobies until i stumbled into half ownership of an old Hobie 14.
I have no experience of the Wave, but assume it is not slower than its predecessor.
As you say they are a grin machine. Sub-marined mine a few times and pitch-poled once.

Easy to sail fast, which is a huge appeal to newcomers, but like anything with a sail takes skill and experience to get the absolute best out of them.

Have fun.

 

[dancrane]

Hard to imagine two unballasted sailing boats with less in common than the Wayfarer and Hobie cat. I've sailed both and wanted both at different times.

As long as you don't carry the expectation of sedate predictability from the dinghy to the cat, there's plenty of short-term fun to be gained aboard the Hobie.

Since you already enjoy windsurfing, the damp delights of really rapid, volatile sailing characteristics are fine for an hour or two when it's warm.

Not sure I'd ever swap my Osprey for a catamaran though...the Osp isn't slow (PY940) beside the brisker Hobie 14 (PY909), but feels a lot drier - and more relaxing!

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks both. Since posting I had the radical brainstorm of looking in books rather than on the net . So I looked in Jeremy Evan's introductory sailing text which has a decent amount of info and summarises the Hobie Cat 14 as the definitive beach cat, designed to be used in exactly the conditions we were using it in (which were windy, wavey, wet and warm). We were going for short term adrenalin fix sailing and it was easy to sail for that purpose. Dinghy sailing in those conditions would have been unpleasant and difficult. It was the right boat for the venue. My wife loved it which was a real bonus as she doesn't like tippy Wayfarers!!! (she freaks at heeling!) and it was the highlight of my son's holiday, he could not get enough. Fortunately I kept both hulls in the water. What I was impressed with was when gybing in the swell the hulls gripped and the boat did not broach as you came down the swell face. As you point out Dan, staying a bit dryer in the Uk is a benefit, as is the storage aboard for spare clothing,picnics etc. As usual the conclusion is getting more toys to cover all the conditions and crew combinations would be nice....
PS I think for Hobie Wave you can assume it is pretty much a Hobie 14

 

[Seajet]

You'll also get far more sensation of speed from an Osprey on the plane or even just going well, than any cat; when I had a Dart 18 I knew I was really clocking up the miles, but had to keep telling myself how fast we were going.

The Hobie's are regarded as having much less finesse than something like the Dart 18, but they are much, much more rugged; when it came time to sell my Dart we took the hulls apart, self and buyer carried one hull when he put his end down on a brick - note, didn't drop, put down gently; the brick went straight through the hull...

I was always terrified of pitchpoling the Dart as there was said to be a good chance of breaking all the battens, a marine mortgage job to replace !

If I was going to bother with a dinghy cat again - and I won't - I'd go for a Hobie, it may be a bit of a larey hooligan but at least it might stay in one piece and be available just to wazz around.

However something like an Osprey gives speed and the sensation of it, seaworthiness for cruising combined with pinpoint thoroughbred handling.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks Seajet. Yes I read the Hobie is not particularly subtle for steering but in those conditions that did not matter.The Hobie Wave is rotomoulded like a Topper so very tough. I have no plans to get any catamaran but I am putting all this in the memory bank if ever circumstances change. I'll stick to thrill seeking in our Centaur :sleeping:

 

[dancrane]

The critical advantage of the Hobie for boisterous beach-sailing must be the asymmetric hulls which substitute for centreboards. Their shallow draft and rugged simplicity is ideal.

It may be worth mentioning that Hobies don't invariably keep both hulls in the water! With extended experience, your wife might conclude that the Wayfarer's tendency to heel a bit, is vastly more reassuring than the Hobie's spectacular habit of prolongedly flying a hull, then capsizing if pushed! Or worse, far worse, a full-bore pitchpole. She won't like that!

Thanks for the Osprey-promo, Andy...I know it and I believe it, even if I'm still three unstarted weeks of work from relaunching this year!

 

[FairweatherDave]

The critical advantage of the Hobie for boisterous beach-sailing must be the asymmetric hulls which substitute for centreboards. Their shallow draft and rugged simplicity is ideal.

It may be worth mentioning that Hobies don't invariably keep both hulls in the water! With extended experience, your wife might conclude that the Wayfarer's tendency to heel a bit, is vastly more reassuring than the Hobie's spectacular habit of prolongedly flying a hull, then capsizing if pushed! Or worse, far worse, a full-bore pitchpole. She won't like that!

Dan, you've nailed it in the first two sentences re. Hobie qualities.
I was already aware of the possibilities for capsize and pitch poling, (I just kept my wife in the dark about them), but was also really impressed that despite the windstrength and sea state i never "flew a hull". Also maybe the fact it was a Hobie "Wave" might mean it had even more stability/safety built in to the design. The point is that previously I have always seen Hobies and Darts and the like sailed by what look like hard core speed freaks with trapeze wires etc yet unexpectedly I found myself having a real blast having never sailed one before..... and with my cautious wife, as well as my care free son!

 

[jwilson]

I agree with more sensation of speed with a mono dinghy on a flat-out just-still-under-control broad reach plane. I've only sailed Hobie 14s, 16s and 18s, though a few other design fast cats as well. Loved the Hobie 18 which was really quick and stable enough to travel miles on end with one hull just nicely airborne. Never felt as stable on the 14s and 16s. But the fastest I've FELT under sail is on monohulls, from ordinary Lasers to Int 14s and Ospreys.

 

[dancrane]

I think the sheer amount of hull hurrying through the water - or skimming lightly along the top of it - makes a mono feel like more of an occasion than higher speed on a catamaran.

Then again, plenty of very rapid monos are so slender, perhaps their ride doesn't feel like much of a big deal either.

Personally I prefer the feeling of a mono's substantial contact with the water (and its presence) combined with good pace. Although, the mere appearance of all-out speed-machines like the Int14 might send me looking at the Hobie 18 instead, because uncompromising skiff-styled dinghies don't retain the pleasant sense of presence which heavier sisters carry...

View attachment 41797

...I had the feeling the guys in that Int14 were in such a tangle, they wouldn't be going anywhere soon, and there certainly wasn't anywhere comfy to sit. Not the best of all worlds!

 

[Seajet]

Dan,

head, nail !

I crewed a work colleague's ultra trendy, mega ultra expensive Int 14 for a season; it was hideously uncomfortable anywhere except fully out on the wire, I found out the hard way that I required knee pads for going from side to side, and couldn't sail it without gloves due to the thin sheets on the asymmetric.

The rudder seemed to be the only bow to tradition, as the thing steered by the sails - as I've said before it handled like a tea trolley with a rocket engine strapped to it.

All the time, though I kept it to myself, I was thinking ' this cost £10,500 just for the hull and barely goes any faster than my £700 decades old hand crafted wooden Osprey, a thing of beauty grace and poise ' !

With the Dart on the other hand, even though I was young and fit, up to speed on dinghies and with my regular crew, I was always aprehensive of flying a hull, except when singlehanded, then I could judge everything and it seemed stable to happily carry on for long periods as long as I was very wary.

We did capsize it once when out in a silly wind, say 6-7, and I screwed up a tack; let it sit still and get blown over instead of keeping the energy translated into drive.

We had a hell of a job to catch it as it went along on its' side with the trampoline making a good sail, and the recommended recovery technique of both getting on one stern didn't seem to work before the mast was in the mud, a real struggle.

 

[Scillypete]

I think for Hobie Wave you can assume it is pretty much a Hobie 14

On the contrary the two are very different beasts. The 'Hobie wave' can be found at most all inclusive sunshine holiday resorts that do watersports in the package as they are reasonably forgiving, they are a fairly sedate sail compared to the 'Hobie 14' which has a much more slender hull shape and is more sensitive to weight. There are two versions of the 14, the basic 14 has just a mainsail and the 14 turbo has main and jib.

I have sailed both and both are fun, the wave I sailed on holidays and I owned a 14 Turbo for several years even went out on it through the winter months here in Scilly

that's me whizzing across the harbour a few years ago

 

[TQA]

All Hobies have a big grin factor but much better in warmer climes. I guess you had a wet suit on.

However even the 18 can be prone to pitchpoling esp when sailed by a catamaran numptie like me.

 

[Close hauled]

I've owned a Laser, a Fireball and a Dart 18 and loved them all, but the Dart is my number one! Terrific to sail, challenging to sail very well and a superb racing circuit in the UK and Europe.

 

[TQA]

All Hobies have a big grin factor but much better in warmer climes. I guess you had a wet suit on.

However even the 18 can be prone to pitchpoling esp when sailed by a catamaran numptie like me.

 

[FairweatherDave]

The 'Hobie wave' can be found at most all inclusive sunshine holiday resorts that do watersports in the package as they are reasonably forgiving, they are a fairly sedate sail compared to the 'Hobie 14'

Bingo.....You cracked it. A damn fine holiday too. (Dominican Republic with Thomson)
Under the sea conditions though it was not sedate sailing, though compared to the Hobie 14 it might have been. Right boat for the venue. Even better was the fact the boat was barely used by any other people. My only complaint was the quality of the windsurfing kit which was an absolute joke, below my very low expectations, however I get plenty of windsurfing back here so it was great to do something different. But thanks for the correction on the Hobie Wave. And nice pik.

Finally if I was thinking of buying a Hobie 14 or slightly bigger cat (which I am not) I am interested in why people might try and put me off (ie the negatives). I can see trailer sailing would be a bit more time consuming, and in a restricted space boat park they take up more room. But what are the other negatives, obviously it is a wet sail and capsizing one can have all kinds of serious consequences but crudely I'm interested in what people don't like about them, in general sailing terms. I'm not a racer or club member so those issues aren't relevant. I'm asking as I think I've sussed the positives

 

[Seajet]

If you're not in a club, trailer sailing will be a world of pain and hassle anyway, even worse with a cat which suddenly seems not just unweildy but heavy on shore - partly beacuse the trolleys with a wheel under each hull don't give a good handle as a monohull trolley does; this still applies but to a lesser extent when sailing at clubs with a slip - ie all of them.

If buying a dinghy to use in the UK join a club, you can leave the boat mast up and still be surprised by the hassle to get on or off the water, but trailer sailing is for masochists !

You may have been spoilt by the holiday ' here's a boat just jump in and sail off the beach ' experience...

 

[FairweatherDave]

I've been trailer sailing a Wayfarer for a few years now so do appreciate what you say. Having the Cat ready rigged on the beach certainly was nice but I'm happy setting up the Wayfarer in various places. But how would a simple Hobie compare? I guess I'm looking for generalisations from relatively objective Cat owners who are aware of both sides of the coin rather than Cat haters as I'm not trying to start an "anchor thread". But if the thread goes no further thanks to all.

 

[Seajet]

Dave,

I'm certainly no cat hater ( either sort ! ) but just think one needs beware the pitfalls.

If you are happy trailer sailing a Wayfarer you should be fine with a cat like a Hobie, but I'd still say beware weight and assembly / disassembly times, I'd go for a club every time and could show you ours for a start, but each to their own.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Dave,

I'm certainly no cat hater ( either sort ! )

Apologies Seajet, it wasn't meant that way, your Dart experience versus Osprey makes you exactly the sort of person to contribute so thank you. I was just trying to avoid the thread going down a general anti trailer sailer direction when I'm already aware of the joys of manhandling my Wayfarer. I'm just curious if there are some generalities or anti-Cat views that might be worth being aware of, and people can get very defensive about their choices and hence might be reluctant to post useful info. There must be some negatives as well as cold wet sailing that put people off....