Hit by Sunsail yacht, Am I being unreasonable?

[Davy_S]

Nearly three weeks ago a Sunsail yacht entered the harbour and tried to moor stern to, due to the crosswind and I would expect short of experience, he lost the plot and hit three moored boats, another yacht had to tow him to safety.
I only found out the next morning when I noticed my bows were near to the wall that he had hit me. Now the damage is minimal, he has run over my mooring line to concrete block, dragged the block and hit my stern, fortunately I have an old but servicable Seagull engine on the bathing platform and this has been hit, it has broke the sparkplug and plastic cap, also the fueltank has been dented and bent up 30 degrees making it unfillable. I asked John Williams from saving old seagulls how much to replace, including postage about £40, plus 30 euros for local diver to check my moorings.
What has annoyed me is the fact that the yacht left the next day and said nothing!
I have been in touch with Sunsail (given them the name of yacht) and they have messed me about for three weeks, asking for my phone number(I gave it them) then saying they have no Rep on Kefalonia, the yacht charterers have reported no incident, they do not condone bad seamanship and are sorry. thats it!
Am I being a bit of a git! I would have told someone if I had damaged their boat, not ran off. I think I am asking for a reasonable amount from Sunsail, why should
I be out of pocket?
I also have witnesses as to what happened.l

Whats the verdict, what would you do, should I report it to the port police or let it go?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Report to authorities in writing, copy to Sunsail. Make an insurance claim, give insurers name of SS yot, and witness details.

 

[fireball]

Have you been in touch with the local sunsail or the HO sunsail?
If only the local one then my next port of call would be to the HO Sunsail, give them a timescale in which to respond in.

 

[StugeronSteve]

Pass it to your insurers and ask them to recover the money on your behalf. I have had a couple of little bangs like this and Bishop Skinner have been happy to act as heavies, on the basis that they would tear up the claim if they get no joy (both were for less than my NCD).

 

[Davy_S]

Dear David,



I regret to hear of your report of damaged to your auxiliary engine. We were unable to question any of the people who had hired the yacht for that period as they had already returned the yacht to us and had not reported any ‘incident’ during their debrief. Subsequently we have not been able to contact them.

We do not have any representatives on Cephalonia Island and so are unable to see the damage for ourselves.

We do certainly always encourage ‘good seamanship’ and ‘manners’ in any way that we can with our charter’ers and can not condone any irresponsible behaviour.



Yours Sincerely



Mandy Trusler





Mandy Trusler

Ionian Yacht Base Manager



Vounaki Marina

Paleros, AK 300 12, ETOL, GREECE

Direct line 0030 26430 42135

Reception & Fax 0030 26430 41944





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[steve_cronin]

I would have no hesitation in persuing this to the full extent.

I'm sure you know how to proceed with a claim but you are asking about the "Sporting Britishness" of doing it, I assume?

Well, I would take the "Yorkshireman" view on this one and say "Geet on wi' it lad and dun't be so bluddy soft!"

It isn't your function to provide a fairy tale world for Sunsail's customers to have an unrealistic yachting experience within.

Incidentally, I was around Keffalinia at that time. When and where did it happen? I remember seeing a Sunsail boat get teeboned across the back of several yachts in Sami. All too common an event, evidently.

Steve Cronin

 

[Davy_S]

Hi Steve.
Yep,I think you are right, I am to bluddy soft!
I wont be next time though. It happened in Agia Efimia (I live nearby)

Regarding Sami, there have been two incidents this week, first one was yacht on yacht hit, no agreement could be reached over damage payment, one yacht has been impounded awaiting outcome.
Secondly two Italian yachts hit, big big argument! one Italian arrested by port police, dont know the outcome yet! This was Yesterday.

 

[steve_cronin]

Yep,

it's that time of year!

FWIW we were in Agia from 07/07/07 to 09/07/07

We'll be down again on 18/08/07

Ag Ef in quieter times (2004)

Steve Cronin

 

[jimbaerselman]

David,

A bit of chutzpa is needed. Put your confident hat on and go for it. Use the standard carrot and stick procedure:

Email Sunsail UK outlining the circumstances. Tell Sunsail that it is their responsibility to pay you for your repairs, not the responsibilityof the crew. They may wish to charge the crew, but that's their problem.

Stating what witnesses you have (without saying what they will say) and give an estimate of the cost to you of repairing the damage done. Point out (if true) how much sailing time you may lose and what inconveniences and other costs you may suffer while repairs are made.

Ask them to pay you your estimated cost of repairs by (give a suitable date - say two weeks ahead). Explain that if you do not get a satisfactory reply from them you will be claiming for damages and loss of sailing time in addition to the straightforward repair costs (if that's true). Put a figure on this claim.

If their reply is sluggish, obtain statements from your witnesses.

If you are faced with denial of responsibility, state one of the following, depending which you prefer and which is valid for the circumstances: (you'll need to do a little homework here)

a. you intend to file a claim through the small claims court (very easy, but may not apply in this particular case. The court has an excellent web site that helps you the whole way. Claims can be filed on line)

b. you intend to brief your insurance company to recover the money from them

'for the full sum unless you have a satisfactory reponse by whenever' - your second deadline.

best of luck,

 

[Captain_Chaos]

Do you really think Sunsail give a toss about a bent seagull?

Look chaps, several years ago Sunsail allowed a bunch of novices to sail in hobi cat that did not have the safety bit attached to the top of the mast to stop it inverting and the "safety " crew had not been been trained on how to right an upturned boat.
As a direct consequence a young girl died when the boat capsized and the "rescue" boat kit did not include a knife which could have cut her free.
The parents have tried for years for get sunsail to recognise their mistakes but without success.

Try and pursue them for the cost of the repairs to your outboard but dont hold your breath, this is a company with no moral compass.

 

[HoratioHB]

Yes but remember that Sunsail are now owned by First Choice - a much larger company with a bigger reputation to maintain, so you might want to do what I do and write directly to the Chief Executive. It can be very effective I've done it with The Carphone Warehouse and First Choice in recent years.

 

[duncan]

maybe but at the end of the day the incident is the responsibility of the charter party surely?

Sunsail would I presume be unable to pass on personal details of them to any third party but if the injured party pursues the matter through their insurers it will follow a route back through Sunsail to the the boats insurers to Sunsail and on to the charter party............at which point the injured party only has to prove the damage was the direct result of a negligent act by the insured to successfully recover (according to Edmund Whelan's (RYA) interpretation of such incidents).

 

[Oen]

Scumsail...

The company which believes that seamanship and moral responsibility are simply problems other people face...

Make the buggers pay...

If you have no joy I'll put you in touch with one or two of their board members. Spoil their days and get what you're after! ( I did, and I did!!!!)

 

[Poignard]

No you are not being unreasonable - go for them. If they get enough claims against them they might start checking that people who hire their boats have some seamanship skills.

 

[poter]

Davy,
It might also be worth your time in pointing out to Sunsail that, they are also now getting bad publicity on a very large Sailing web site.............

Why don't you also put together a complaint to the YBW mag. letters page as well.
The fact is that sunsail need the YBW mag to advertise in to catch punters!
Any pressure that you can apply.

I might add I had a run in with 2 Sunsail yachts in Weymouth a couple of years ago, no damage but we were cut off under the bridge and nearly ended up on a fishing boat....much use on ye old saxon words......

keep us posted.

poter.

 

[asteven221]

Maybe a wee bit harsh on Sunsail Duncan re the hobbicat accident, as yachting has risks which we all know and accept. Maybe Sunsail are scared to talk about it given that it seems everyone wants someone to blame so they can be punished in some way. A very sad accident, but accidents unfortunately happen. My son and I hired a hobbicat on holiday from a seaside hire company, nothing to do with Sunsail and there were no specific safety instructions etc. We had never sailed one and yup we turned it into a submarine, nosediving into the depths after unfurling the jib. Although I didn't think of it at the time, I have to say it did cross my mind later that a serious accident could very easily occur with these things. Bloody good fun though!
Sorry to hear about the unfortunate damage to your boat from a Sunsail yacht. I have a lot of sympathy for you and I hope you get recompensed. I don't know about other areas, but in the Clyde I have long since noticed the damaged state of many Sunsail yachts and the attitude of the people that sail them (i.e. it's not my boat so who gives a F$%^). Although I feel pretty terrible doing it, I chase them if they try to raft up to my boat as they are often a nightmare. Obviously that doesn't apply to every Sunsail charter, but what's happened with your boat backs up why I refuse to let them get anywhere near my boat. Sunsail could really do with vetting the people that hire their boats. Surely they inspect their boats on return and make the hirers pay for any damage to their boats. If so, it then follows that they don't use the money to repair their boats (which is why many are dented, gashed and have broken stanchions) and significantly ignore the fact that there is some other poor sod left with their hard earned pride and joy damaged as a result of a Sunsail collision. As further proof, a number of Sunsail yachts recently berthed at Rothesay marina at a location regulars know gets a wee bit shallow at low tide. Despite being advised to move, they stayed put. (Who cares - it's not my boat) Result? Low tide - all Sunsail boats were stuck at 45 degrees against the pontoon looking very stupid to say the least. I am sure there is a photo elsewhere in this forum. It certainly made the Yachting press.

 

[PhilipH]

Definitely time to show that you are prepared to go nuclear. Ignore the Ionian rep and go to the top at Sunsail UK - I think there are two Sunsail divisions for yachting (Flotilla and Bareboat):
Managing Director Matt West for Flotilla and Managing Director Peter Cochran for Worldwide Yachts, both based at Sunsail
The Port House, Port Solent
Portsmouth
Hampshire
PO6 4TH



Also copy your letter to Peter Long, the Chief Executive of First Choice, First Choice Holidays PLC
First Choice House
London Road
Crawley
RH10 9GX

This kind of behaviour and the poor response have to be challenged - yup, another Yorkshireman here. JFDI.

 

[BrendanS]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe a wee bit harsh on Sunsail Duncan re the hobbicat accident

[/ QUOTE ]

Duncan didn't mention the hobicat incident, Captain chaos did that.

 

[duncan]

asteven - it was Captain Chaos that brought up the hobbiecat incident not me; I believe it was pretty throughly dealt with in the courts.

equally it was Davy_s whose boat suffered in the current incident.

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]

Look chaps, several years ago Sunsail allowed a bunch of novices to sail in hobi cat that did not have the safety bit attached to the top of the mast to stop it inverting and the "safety " crew had not been been trained on how to right an upturned boat.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you are being extremely harsh there ... there are a huge number of places where you can hire small craft with little or no experience. The larger co.s provide a "Safety" cover - these generally run up to stubbed toes and run of the mill capsises. The number of fatalities due to inadequate cover is so negligible that I don't recall ever seeing another report on the subject.
That this particular safety crew did not have a knife available to them to cut the trampoline is tragic and I believe does serve as a lesson in what should then be available to all similar Safety boats. But to take that to the limit and say that SunSail don't care about their customers is incorrect. If they didn't care then why go to the trouble of Safety boats to start with?