Helping Hands

[Eudorajab]

Strange thing happened to me on Saturday in Cowes Yacht Haven. The wind as you know was pretty mischevious especially when coming into the marina (being an easterly) and was making berthing more a matter of luck than choice. We were fortunate enough to have our lines taken by a neeighboring yacht (much to SWMBO's releif) and during the course of the afternoon I took a number of lines for a number of boats both power and sail experiencing some difficulties berthing. Anyway I digress. Coming back to the berth after throwing the rubbish, a "gent" heading the same way commented on the wind etc as you do then happened to point out a sunsail boat coming in to berth by saying "hes made a right cockup of that hasnt he ?") or words to that effect. Well suffice to say I moved quickly to take a line from the hapless boat which was being blown off the pontoon at a rapid rate of knots and secured their bowline enabling the skipper to bring his boat alongside. What amazed me is that the gent I was chatting to a minute before was nowhere to be seen !!

This is by no means an isolated incident. In all my years of sailing, I have come across this phenomenon far too often. As I often sail single handed it can be tricky berthing in heavy weather without someone to take the lines although I have deloped my own tactics for this eventuality. In smaller marinas I tend to find that it is more likely that a stranger will take your lines as opposed to the bigger marinas. Why is this?

Surely it is better to help someone who is obviously struggling or even if they are not it is always appreciated even if you or they decline the offer. Why is it becomming so rare these days ???? or have I got it completely wrong ?

Maybe people enjoy the SHOW these days as opposed to trying to help maybe inexperienced skippers avoid the embarrasment and costly effects of a bad berthing. Granted we all have to learn somehow, but when the weather makes it difficult for even experienced sailors with a full crew to berth, surely it makes sense to help out fellow boaters be they sail or power.

What thinks you ??

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

John,
Sadly you are right most people only want to have a good laugh rather than lift a finger to help. The attitude is far to often what can you do for me rather than what can I do for you.
You do notice on here that some offer constructive help on a regular basis while many I suspect just get off on reading the posts. I would expect the latter would also just sit and watch a fellow yachtsman struggle.
Its a fact that help is not always appreciated but at least I have offered, pride before a fall maybe.

Trevor.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[suse]

oh yes, how we do like a 'show' - and we have also provided quite a few in our time sailing together (4 years), as well. In our marina - Neptune, in the middle of Ipswich - very friendly, and thank goodness for that, because we have had terrible berthing problems, esp last year with a very dodgy gear box. Without many opportune offers of help, we might have sold the boat, such were the ghastly probs. As a marina neighbour says 'When offered help, say yes'. We say 'and return the favour to everyone else'.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[charles_reed]

As I sail single-handed I do appreciate the helping hand from time to time - all too often though the helpers are well intentioned but incompetent.

I've found outside the UK that you are more likely to have others rush to your assistance, especially in Spain.

Perhaps it has something to do with the brit psychology? Mind you you'll frequently find people spectating and commenting who don't lift a finger to help.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jacket]

At least the gent you were talking to had the good grace to disappear. As I sail single handed, what really gets me is the people who just sit there in their cockpit, sipping their G&T, watching as you struggle.

I think they must mainly be charterers (either that or they have very good insurance) as they rarely move even if you're about to dent their boat.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Violetta]

Not Brit, I think

More like Solent, where overcrowding seems to turn things a bit sour. I suppose that's also the area that's more likely to attract occasional sailors and people who do it for status rather than love (as well as all the true and expert sailors, I hasten to add) Most of the angry posts about the behaviour of other sailors seem to come from people based in that area. I can't say I have ever experienced it myself.

Two things that help: mud - a great leveller and waiting for the tide - a great teacher of patience and fellowship.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[bigmart]

I had a similar experience when I was trying to berth my previos boat in Cowes Yacht Haven. The winds were awkward & the was another boat, with a fellow on deck, a couple of potoons away who watched me struggling to single handedly berth the boat with the wind blowing me off the pontoon. The only difference was that the guy knew me & he aknowledged me as I came into the berth.

The experience only served to confirm my opinion of him. What else can I say.

Martin

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Dominic]

Re: But Beware the Helpful Idiot

True points but;

Why is it that the skipper will allow his crew to pass a line to a stranger on the dockside and then give up all responsibility for the docking ? Standing there in silence, clutching the wheel as if it was a "badge of office" while others heave and pull and bash the boat into others.

Would you do that with your Ferrari ?

I have had my neat and cunning manouvre wrecked by the "helpful idiot" who took a line, slapped it on a cleat and promptly created a bow spring. We sprang out.

It was my fault - I now know that when you pass a line to a "dockside stranger" you have to tightly control their actions, which may leave them feeling a little peeved at being "gripped" when all they wanted to do was help.

On the other hand, when I am with a group of students I prefer them to complete the docking without outside help - it comes from sailing in the states and seeing owners of big power boats who could not dock unless some young female marina assistant pulled their 45 foot power boat onto the pontoon. Two small arms against 800 horsepower.

I am trying to draw a balance between ;

"If you can´t dock it you shouldn´t have taken it out. "
and
"Conditions are evil today, would you like a hand ?"



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[LadyInBed]

Don’t judge normal conduct by that that you meet in the Solent. I, as many others here, sail single handed a fair bit of the time. I've found people are always willing to assist, especially if you ask (or if you are approaching alongside their pride and joy /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif).

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimi]

Sailing with the family I've only everr once had a problem and that funnily enough was at Cowes Yacht Haven where an overly helpful chappie lifted my spring off when just about to spring off.. led to an interesting couple of minutes! Otherwise no complaints!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[bigmart]

Re: You cant always trust

even the people you thought you could trust.

Last summer I was manouvering my boat onto a pontoon that had around 2-3 knots of tide running & a moderate breeze blowing off. My wife, who was on the pontoon with my daughter, took the bow line, no problem. I passed the, neatly coiled, stern line to my 12 year old daughter, who has been sailing since she could walk, & said "Put the line around the bollard."

She puth the whole coil of line neatly over the bollard & the boat drifyed neatly out to an angle of 45 deg. to the pontoon. Just goes to show you. I had thought that I had trained her well but it was early in the season.

No one to blame but myself.

Martin

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[davidhand]

Actually I had the opposite problem last season when practicing some MOB's with SWMBO a guy on a PWC brought back my spare ring buoy. I had a hard time explaining to him that I had thrown it overboard on purpose. I think he thought I was nuts.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Oldhand]

Although assistance is always welcome in difficult berthing conditions, too frequently the helper ruins one's berthing plans. The majority of helpers appear to take the bow line, run forward, get it round a pontoon cleat and pull for all they are worth. The end result is the bow swings in and the stern swings out and one's crew standing amidships with a back-spring and /or stern line can't bridge the gap to the pontoon etc. etc.

Many people could benefit from watching a ship berth without the help of tugs or thrusters and winches. They would see the most vital line to get ashore is a back spring. Fenders placed forward deal with the tendency for the bow to swing in against the berth and then engine and rudder working against the back-spring are used to get the whole ship alongside. Most South Coast marina fingers are long enough for average sized yachts to use the same technique but it does need a crew to get off well forward and get the spring on to the outboard cleat of the finger as quickly as possible and lock it off when the bow reaches the desired position. The crew can then run forward and tame the inward swing of the bow if the speed is too high when the spring goes taught. The helmsman then motors the stern in against the back-spring and calmly steps off and makes the stearn line fast before dealing with bow lines. Yes, bow lines can be the last to need attention!


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Peppermint]

We have a rule

Never give a line to anyone, ever!

It comes from hard won experience. On one visit to Cowes Yacht Haven with a strong breeze off the town I brough a well known 56ft racer along the outside berths. The vessel has no cleats, just rails welded to the deck, which had got us into the habit of adjusting our lines on the pontoon cleat. As we neatly slipped alongside my sternline handler was off and made fast where my bowline man gave the line to a "helper" on the pontoon. Quick as a flash the guy whipped a loop into the lines end and dropped it over the cleat. It was about 40ft to long. I now have a very big boat almost at rightangles to a very busy pontoon.

"I bet them tarts didn't get into a mess like that" was one of the kinder comments.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tome]

I recall coming into CYH single handed and one of their staff spotted me and put out a call to a colleague on the pontoon. The helping hand, though not strictly necessary, was most welcome. I don't think the Solent is anywhere near as bad as people make out.

Over the past few seasons when sailing with my wife, we've met a lot of people simply by taking their lines or them taking ours. I recall on our previous boat a Contessa coming into Salcombe with a husband and wife and 2 kids. As we saw them come in, I went to take their lines and was rewarded by profuse thanks by mum and fresh croisants the following morning. We thoroughly enjoyed their company over the next few days.

Likewise, we entered Dartmouth last year and a helpful couple in a Westerly Oceanranger took our lines at Town Quay. It helped us out and again we became friends, even receiving a Christmas card.

Just my personal experience, maybe I'm just lucky.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: Not Brit, I think

<<Two things that help: mud - a great leveller and waiting for the tide - a great teacher of patience and fellowship>>
Ah yes. What would the entrance to Harwich Harbour be without the traditional Belgian or Dutchman aground on the bank? What's Dutch for 'I was just following the shallow draft bilge keeler?'

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tcm]

Rules for dockside helpers

I frequently try and help.

But the "don't ever give a line to anyone, ever" rule means that I just sort-of wander up, a bit. Otherwise, see, I'll get trampled - "Look, here's another tosspot looking to wreck our berthing - if he says a word ignore him or tellim to get the hell out of our way!" Heavily-crewed boats usually do not need help.

Other times, merely turning up on deck when they are coming alongside will attract indignation: "I've done this hundreds of times"

We use the code "Action!" when another is coming alongside our boat, much better than "Oi everyone, there's another boat turning up, so let's make sure he doesn't smash us up by getting all the fenders on that side ASAP!"

So, I think a code of conduct for dockside/boatside helpers is

1) You can "be around" as the docking is happening. But until you are sure help is needed - DO NOT occupy the zone immediately alongside the boat if they jump ashore anywhere along the length of the boat (or stern, if in the med).

2) on your own boat, with others coming alongsdie, you are unwise and even a bit unhelpful to assume another boat coming alongside has masive expertise ("well, you shouldn't come alongside if you don't know what you're doing!") and too trusting if you do nothing - offer to take a line, adjust fenders is quite acceptable. The other skipper is unreasonable to pretend that this presumes he is inexpert - knocks and dents happen to the best.

3) If you take a line, you should be told (very tightly, as indicated above) exactly what should be done with the line. If they don't say, and verify that you understand - then whatever they say or do it's not really your fault - they abrogated the responsibilty for berthing partly or entirely to you.

4) If you aren't told what to do with the line, ask perhaps even before the line is taken what they want doing with it. The opening gambit is "Do you want this line back, yes?" which immediately returns control to those on the boat. I'm assuming here that you aren't like the (what seemed like pro crew) guys who offered berthing assistance - even before I threw the line they said "do you want the line back?", and I said "Yes" - so (without taking a turn or anything), they erm threw the line straight back. Cheers!

4) With all above, it will/should very quickly become obvious how much expertise is on board.

On several occassions I have asked what they want doing and they look at me weirdly and assume that I'll "know" or even "um, just hold this line would you please?" and here come the problems: I'll take a qucik turn on the line and then (presuming the other line flingers are also expecting dockside help) move to take another line.

Sometimes several will tie off the whole boat. Then the skipper gets all huffy and make as though don't I know how to tie up a boat and what sort of knot is this, hm? Once, with a skipper shrieking at his crew, and then shouting at me and another stranger whilst he was being blown off,, we looked at each other, and decided that the best and safest for all would be to silently let him go elsewhere....

Another time, it seemed clear that they planned for someone ashore to take the line and seeing i was alone around their berthing zone, I took the line from the bow. This line was quickly followed by other lines from the stern, and then from midships. Hm.

5) Charter boats (because they are not familar) and racing sailing yachts and pencil-thin powerboats have difficulty in marinas. Although tempting, this isn't a cue to watch the show imho. I was alone in helping a triple-engined 40 foot boat, capable of 70 knots (cos it was called Seventy Knots) manoevre out with engines that din't like to tick over. Fraid my swmbo was quite tut-tut and I agreed that perhaps their having just three fenders on the boat was somewhat light. But once he was out, and since he was coming back in, I asked when he planned to be back, and offered (insisted() to be around at 6p m when he was planning to be back, and in he came, more tutting but we hauled him in, fendered ourselves and him.....and then he turned up with two bottles of wine!

So it can all turn out nice, if everyone is nice.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[roger]

What interests me is that many boats seem to be unable to berth at all without assistance. Its very difficult to get down onto a pontoon from large modern high frreboard sailing boats and from most motor boats. Since many of the latter have convex decks at the bow it looks pretty hazardous for their crews even to get close to the edge let alone jumping off them.

<hr width=100% size=1>Roger

 

[LadyInBed]

I've just had a nice couple of days out with a friend. The only thing that marred the trip was catching my hand between a cleat and my mooring line, stupid, I still had a bit of way on when I was hooking up the line.
Four and a half hours at casualty, and nine stitches, that’s going to keep me off of the water for a couple of weeks!
I shudder to think what would have happened without a helping hand on board.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Magic_Sailor]

I appreciate that it could be useful to have a helper if you're single handed. I've had similar problems in Cowes Yacht Haven - most embarrasing.

To date though I've not had any big probs with the Sun Sail fleet. It's supposed to be fun and everyone has to start somewhere and what's more, all groups have got their tossers (walking up and down the pontoon with a mobile - I must admit, this is a mark of the SS set).

However, I've often found that well intentioned help from the pontoon usually makes my life more difficult. The passed line usually gets snubbed, this kicking my rear end out - or whatever.

I've instructed SWMBO to politely decline.

However, far be it from me to reduce still further the already abominably low level of "help thy neighbour" attitude in this country.

Maybe it would be better for the berthing yachtie to politely ask for help and for the norm to be that helpers spring into action (good pun eh?) - as I would if someone asked. That way - everyone gets help where needed and there are no hurt feelings (no matter how polite the refusal I suspect).

Magic



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://hometown.aol.co.uk/geoffwestgarth/myhomepage/travelwriting.html>Click for website!</A>