Helping Hands

[claymore]

Re: We have a rule

We operate in a similar fashion in that we think in terms of being entirely self sufficient. When we get the lines ready, hanging over the guardrails, we have the loops ready to put onto pontoon cleats then we make them off on board. We have grand cleat amidships and a 'panama' hole which we lead the lines through and this is the first to be attached. Whichever of us is helming then goes up on deck and makes off the bow and stern lines which the other has looped onto the pontoon cleats. Then we sort out the springs. This is a fairly failsafe method - and it needs to be in a blow because we have our fair share of windage and so need to think in terms of getting it right first time. We sometimes use the original line as a stern spring and motor gently forward to keep us alongside if we are being blown off the pontoon until the lines are on and cleated. It also helps that we've owned Claymore for a few years now and now most of her handling characteristics in a variety of conditions.
We always think its a bonus when there is someone who will take our lines and we just quietly ask them to 'loop it over that cleat there, if you would please, thanks a lot' This way they are not intervening and cocking up any strategy.
The rule on the boat is that we both can berth her - in fact Dear Heart is better at coming alongside than I am -
The other rule is that we don't shout - EVER!
When helping others we ask them what they want us to do and sometimes when we can sense a bit of inexperience or indecision we tend to offer the odd suggestion.
That's what helped us the most when we were starting out.

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Claymore
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[snowleopard]

Re: We have a rule

think you have the answer to my perpetual problem. we normally berth by lassoing a cleat with a bight of rope and bring the end back aboard as a slip. the 'helpful' passer-by often makes the line to the cleat and leaves us with a long line cleated at both ends. problem seems to be conveying the concept of passing the end back without making up on the cleat in a few words.

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[claymore]

Re: We have a rule

Coming alongside is one of those times when there's several opportunities for it to all go pear-shaped. I think too much speed is almost guaranteed to do this and when combined with the lassoo technique it all becomes high risk. My favourite piece of showing off is to come alongside upwind and/or uptide of a pontoon and drift sideways down into a tight slot that would be a sod to enter conventionally. Our windage is really helpful then and we can both step gently off onto the pontoon and make off the lines. The problem is there's never anyone around when you do this inch perfectly - but there's a shedload when you make a monkey's of it.

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[Laurin]

Re: We have a rule

I agree with the girlie in the partnership being at the wheel.... we did it all last season as I need the most practice, but it also makes sense, my partner has longer legs and so can step onto the pontoon before I would in the same situation.

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[Eudorajab]

Re: But Beware the Helpful Idiot

It all comes down to how you run your boat I guess. For SWMBO who normally is first off the boat when we are together, she knows exactly what it is that I want her to do based on our berthing tactics leading up to the pontoon. This means that if anyone comes to offer assistance she hands them the line and explains to them what to do with it in much the same way that it has been explained to her beforehand. This does not involve any raised voices but more calm instructions. At this point you can quite easily judge the level of competence of the helper simply by the expression on their face when the request is issued and if necessary adjust your terminolgy accordingly. Worst case scenario is that SWMBO hops off and does it anyway (in the nicest possible way) but we have found that eager novices can be quite helpfull it communicated with in english as opposed to salty sea dog terminology. Its no good telling someone what you intend to do and by default what you want them to do if you are both speaking different languages.

Its not hard to see why some people may be regarded as incompetant when issued with a stream of old salty dog speak when a simple wrap it around that big thingy over there and pass it back to me would suffice.

Maybe it is more to do with the fact that some skippers seem to judge their own prowess by the amount of terminology that they have picked up from reading numreous books and doing very little sailing. I personally would still prefer to have help offered to me even if I felt that in the circumstances I should decline and positively encourage it by maybe modifying my language and instructions or in some cases even my docking strategy in order for the helper to if nothing else gain a little more experience if required but at least to go away knowing that their efforts were not in vain. After all.. you never know when you are going to need a helping hand for real. Wouldnt it be better if that helping hand could actually be usefull ??

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[Eudorajab]

Re: We have a rule

Maybe you or your bowline guy should have told the helper exactly what it is that you wanted him to do and saved yourself and the helper considerable embarrasment. After all ... how was he to know ?

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[Dominic]

Re: But Beware the Helpful Idiot

Totally agree with you.

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[DanTribe]

The last time I offered help I almost got invoved in a "domestic".I took a line from a woman on the foredeck, passed it through a cleat and handed it back.As I walked away I heard."Who was that? What did he say? Why did you smile at him?"
I decided a tactical retreat was indicated.
Dan

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[Peppermint]

Not really

Firstly the line handler should have done the job that he was told off for. But we'd been out for a while and he could taste his first pint.

Secondly My part of the communication was done before we arrived as all the engine controls were in the starboard cockpit and we were coming in port side to.

Any conversation I'd had with the, quite accomplished "helper" might have added to the confusion. He was a Pole who we later found, with his English speaking girl friend, in the pub. He could barely order a pint in English.

You can make no assumptions with strangers. If your crewed better if they do the job. You don't get that long to fiddle about with a strong breeze on the beam.

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[whisper]

As a mere motor boater I'm easily confused !
I don't understand why the Back/Stern Spring is so important in this scenario.
As I understand it this line is fixed to the stern of the boat and is taken forward to some point on the pontoon/wall. This will not help to keep a boat into the pontoon if there is any forward motion.
On the other hand using a Fore/Bow Spring will a) act as a brake as you come alongside and b) will hold the boat tight to the pontoon when in forward gear and when the helm is turned so that the stern moves towards the pontoon/quay.
Is it my age? /forums/images/icons/smile.gif



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[Eudorajab]

Whilst I would have to agree with you that sometimes a novice helper can ruin a perfectly good berthing, I feel that it is up to the skipper or whover hands the line to a helper to leave them with no uncertainty as to what is required. If you recieve a blank look after politely requesting the appropriate action, well then its back to plan A which was the original plan and not based on any help at all.

Yes we all have our own strategies gained the right way from experience, but I still personally feel that it benefits everyone if that experience is passed on to peaople willing to learn. I also make a point of avaoiding any salty sea jargon if it is apparent that the helper does not quite fully understand it.



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[claymore]

If its my comments that have confused then I'll try again. By using the line from the centre of the boat (beam) to a cleat on the pontoon located at a point to the rear - this prevents forward motion and if necessary by engaging forward gear and steering in to the pontoon the boat sits alongside whilst we get the other lines on.
I hope I've said that a bit better, sorry for any confusion.

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[claymore]

Re: We have a rule

Are you saying that it's easier to get your leg over if they are longer?

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[Eudorajab]

Can see now why and eager inexpereienced helper may get confused cant you ?

"Loop the rope round that big thingy over there and hand it back to me please"

Dont midship cleats make things that much easier !! Favourite and IMO quickest way to stop the boat going anywhere is to cleat off on a short lenght to midship cleat well fendered for and aft the boat goes nowhere.

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[claymore]

Absolutely - and we always do this one ourselves then at least we know we are attached to the pontoon! - or if not then its our fault!

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[Eudorajab]

Absoultely right too.

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[Metabarca]

Re: playing pontoon

"she knows exactly what it is that I want her to do based on our berthing tactics leading up to the pontoon"
Phew! I've never heard it put like that before!

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[Twister_Ken]

Don\'t tell everybody...

...anyway, that's my trick. Single-line berthing we call it.

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[Benny1]

Ah,

but what if you are going in stern to?

We are having to move berths as there is a large electrical box on the pontoon next to us that with our new, bigger boat we are more than likely to nudge from time to time. It controls the power to half the marina and it therefore important. Why it was not located behind one tf the pile no on knows, but it would cost £10,000 plus to move it, so we are moving.

However, the only available berths n Pwllheli this yr are all finger pontoons, most of which are 33-34 ft long. Our boat is 41ft6 and has a pretty high freeboard. I am a reasonably fit (nbut only 5ft9 27yold, and I find it hard to clamber up and uver the rail fromthe pontoon, never mind my 5ft tall 50-odd mother!

Therefore, our only option is t go stern to. This is not really problem, but I undertand how your method would wok going bows to, but haw about stern in? Use a spring fron the midships cleat going forward to stop the rearwards motion? Then what?

I am intrigued and we are supposed to be moving berths this weekend, so I might have an experiment.



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[tcm]

shh benny, come away from there

Benny, you have two monster diesels and (i expect?) a bowthruster.

But anyway, in answer to your "then what"...you stop the boat neatly inthe right spot with all the engines, then lineperson gets off stern and stops backwards motion with a line from the stern fwds, and also as they get off they also have a v long line from the bow out thru fairlead and leading outside the boat back to their hand which they then make off (tighten/ tie) at end of the finger pontoon. After that of course you eff about with large amounts of ropery and hosepipes. Or, just stuff it and go to the pub.


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