Sandwife
New Member
That would be excellent, if you wouldn't mind! In the past I've had a coroner read a section for me, and a farmer.
Cheers, all. What a great forum.
Cheers, all. What a great forum.
Help with my novel
- Thread starter Sandwife
- Start date
Steve_Bentley
Well-Known Member
If my name is published would Interpol get to hear about it? I shall do the honourable thing and decline the kind offer in deference to your much more thoughtful input! 
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
what a great forum!
[/ QUOTE ]Aint it ever! (to be colloquial)
what a great forum!
[/ QUOTE ]Aint it ever! (to be colloquial)
DeeGee
Well-Known Member
A trip-round-the-bay boat would have to be fitted with (small) navigation lights as MagnaCarter has replied, but could easily have a searchlight fitted to the roof of the covered navigation area, operated with a small handle through the roof (ie directed to point out features of the castle, if your guy is doing night trips. In the instruments, a motor-boat (as distinct from a sailing yacht) would have depth, speed, engine info like a car (revs, oil pressure, temperature). A 27ft round-the-bay boat would not have a bow-thruster. (Watching the operators of these sorts of boats is a charm in itself, they have the rope to exactly the right size, probably with a loop, just so, and they come alongside, pop the loop over a bollard/cleat (passive things which ropes go round) and keep the engine chugging away - held back by the rope, the boat just lies alongside, going nowhere whilst the folks get aboard).
I may have misunderstood your post, as I am assuming that you are thinking motor-boat, with seats - the sort of thing one DOES find at seaside resorts/harbours, rather than saily boat round the bay, for which a 27ft boat would be pretty unsuitable. Ahh, I have just reviewed the thread, and I see I am on the ball.
There are plenty of operators of these sort of boats that have no formal qualifications, but I am not sure what the precise legal situation is. My characters would just get on with it, very shady lot...
I may have misunderstood your post, as I am assuming that you are thinking motor-boat, with seats - the sort of thing one DOES find at seaside resorts/harbours, rather than saily boat round the bay, for which a 27ft boat would be pretty unsuitable. Ahh, I have just reviewed the thread, and I see I am on the ball.
There are plenty of operators of these sort of boats that have no formal qualifications, but I am not sure what the precise legal situation is. My characters would just get on with it, very shady lot...
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Dodgy qualifications
I'm not sure how legal your characters are but here's a thought. You can most definitely purchase a university degree, medical qualifications, etc. I don't suppose it is pushing the imagination too far to suggest that somewhere you could buy all the qualifications you need for a 'Saucy Sue' venture. Might even make your plot more interesting?
I'm not sure how legal your characters are but here's a thought. You can most definitely purchase a university degree, medical qualifications, etc. I don't suppose it is pushing the imagination too far to suggest that somewhere you could buy all the qualifications you need for a 'Saucy Sue' venture. Might even make your plot more interesting?
andy_wilson
Well-Known Member
One of my characters takes tourists on little half-hour trips round the bay,
Is is a small boat with a wheelhouse for the operator and open decks for the passengers?
- Is the window you look out of to steer called a windscreen?
C'mon, this is a boat. More properly called a 'wheelhouse window'.
- Would a 27 foot boat have headlights?
Unlikely, but may have deck lights organised so that they help show the quayside when coming alongside, but cast a shadow as passengers disembark so they trip and fall into the arm of another (if it were that kind of novel).
Or other lights you’d switch on at night, and if so where would they be positioned? Are the front ones and the rear ones different colours, like a car’s?
Yes, very specific, try these links for a start.
See here
And here for a diagram
- Can you be prosecuted for drink-driving a boat?
Sort of. You can certainly be prosecuted for having or causing an accident in a commercial vessel whilst 'drunk'.
- How do you start a boat’s engine; is it with an ignition key? What other controls do you need, apart from the steering wheel? (And is it called a steering wheel?)
Some inboard engines have a starter, some small ones have a starting handle. A 27 footer is unlikely to have an outboard, but possible. An inboard engine will probably have a single or twin lever control.
Single lever - usually the first 30 degrees of movement 'clicks' into gear, move forward for forward, back for reverse. Once in gear, with the engine ticking over the vessel will start to move slowly in the relevant direction. Moving the lever further in the relevant direction will increase engine and hence boat speed. Bringing the control back to tickover or neutral will mean the boat will slow, but take an age to stop. It is usual to engage reverse and apply a burst of power to stop forward motion.
Less logical is a twin lever control. 1 lever will select forward or reverse by moving it in the relevant direction. The second lever accellerates the engine by pushing it forward. Takes a bit of getting used to. Single lever is more logical. In either case there is a friction control on the lever so it stays where you put it (or at least should). Not like on a car etc. where if you lift your foot off it springs back.
The steering wheel would normally be referred to as the the 'wheel', or 'ships wheel'. It could also be refered to the helm, but 'helming' suggests more than just steering and would often 'infer' pilotage, navigation, observing instruments and generally being in control. Most boatmen whilst helming will also be chatting away on their mobile or be on the VHF radio discussing what time they will be at the pub.
Some boats are helmed from the back using a tiller, but yours isn't.
- What might you find in the boat’s instrument panel?
Small semi-open trip boat - a VHF, compass, possibly a depth sounder display, unlikely to have a speed and distance log or GPS unit. Equally unlikely to have a radar set or chartplotter. Instead of a depth sounder it might have a fish finder if that is the boatmans hobby, in which case it may also have a GPS or chart plotter. The engine control panel may be separate, and will probably have a rev. counter, an hour meter, warning lights for high temperature, low oil pressure and no charging, with an alarm to alert if any of these are activated. The alarm will usually sound as a test when the power (might have a key switch) is turned on, shattering the silence and alerting the residents of the nearby cottage of the illicit affair (if it were that kindd of novel). Starting may be via the key like your car, or a separate push button, or as put before, by handle. May have smaller gauges for temperature / oil pressure / charge. But prob'ly not.
- If a man wanted to take tourists out on his boat for trips round the bay, what qualifications/paperwork would he need to complete? I mean, things like insurance, and is there a certificate the boat would need to show it was sea-worthy? And do you have to pass a kind of driving test if you’re going to take passengers? (This last set of questions is really important.)
Local Boatmans Licence issued by the Harbour Master on behalf of the local Authority would be all that is required to take trips within the harbour limits, which will almost certainly include 'the bay'. They will also certify the boat for maximum loading, and any safety equpment that should be carried. It will need to be insured for public and third party liability as a minimum and surveyed periodically to ensure the hull, structure, machinery, installations and essential equipment are up to the job.
The boatmans licence is issued to someone who can demonstrate that they have a pulse and have good local maritime knowledge. Sod all the yachmaster balloney and look here, it also indicate harbour limits that someone could show you on a chart...
MCA boatmans stuff
I’d be very grateful if you could give me any help with these. I so want my novel to be accurate, and it’s infuriating when writers get basic details wrong.
HA! you should see on here when they get stuck into such shoddy works of literature, or after a bit of TV coverage of an ocean race, or even of the boat show!
Sorry for my appalling level of ignorance, but I live in Shropshire and there's no more land-locked county.
Try South Yorkshire, or Oxfordshire.
Is is a small boat with a wheelhouse for the operator and open decks for the passengers?
- Is the window you look out of to steer called a windscreen?
C'mon, this is a boat. More properly called a 'wheelhouse window'.
- Would a 27 foot boat have headlights?
Unlikely, but may have deck lights organised so that they help show the quayside when coming alongside, but cast a shadow as passengers disembark so they trip and fall into the arm of another (if it were that kind of novel).
Or other lights you’d switch on at night, and if so where would they be positioned? Are the front ones and the rear ones different colours, like a car’s?
Yes, very specific, try these links for a start.
See here
And here for a diagram
- Can you be prosecuted for drink-driving a boat?
Sort of. You can certainly be prosecuted for having or causing an accident in a commercial vessel whilst 'drunk'.
- How do you start a boat’s engine; is it with an ignition key? What other controls do you need, apart from the steering wheel? (And is it called a steering wheel?)
Some inboard engines have a starter, some small ones have a starting handle. A 27 footer is unlikely to have an outboard, but possible. An inboard engine will probably have a single or twin lever control.
Single lever - usually the first 30 degrees of movement 'clicks' into gear, move forward for forward, back for reverse. Once in gear, with the engine ticking over the vessel will start to move slowly in the relevant direction. Moving the lever further in the relevant direction will increase engine and hence boat speed. Bringing the control back to tickover or neutral will mean the boat will slow, but take an age to stop. It is usual to engage reverse and apply a burst of power to stop forward motion.
Less logical is a twin lever control. 1 lever will select forward or reverse by moving it in the relevant direction. The second lever accellerates the engine by pushing it forward. Takes a bit of getting used to. Single lever is more logical. In either case there is a friction control on the lever so it stays where you put it (or at least should). Not like on a car etc. where if you lift your foot off it springs back.
The steering wheel would normally be referred to as the the 'wheel', or 'ships wheel'. It could also be refered to the helm, but 'helming' suggests more than just steering and would often 'infer' pilotage, navigation, observing instruments and generally being in control. Most boatmen whilst helming will also be chatting away on their mobile or be on the VHF radio discussing what time they will be at the pub.
Some boats are helmed from the back using a tiller, but yours isn't.
- What might you find in the boat’s instrument panel?
Small semi-open trip boat - a VHF, compass, possibly a depth sounder display, unlikely to have a speed and distance log or GPS unit. Equally unlikely to have a radar set or chartplotter. Instead of a depth sounder it might have a fish finder if that is the boatmans hobby, in which case it may also have a GPS or chart plotter. The engine control panel may be separate, and will probably have a rev. counter, an hour meter, warning lights for high temperature, low oil pressure and no charging, with an alarm to alert if any of these are activated. The alarm will usually sound as a test when the power (might have a key switch) is turned on, shattering the silence and alerting the residents of the nearby cottage of the illicit affair (if it were that kindd of novel). Starting may be via the key like your car, or a separate push button, or as put before, by handle. May have smaller gauges for temperature / oil pressure / charge. But prob'ly not.
- If a man wanted to take tourists out on his boat for trips round the bay, what qualifications/paperwork would he need to complete? I mean, things like insurance, and is there a certificate the boat would need to show it was sea-worthy? And do you have to pass a kind of driving test if you’re going to take passengers? (This last set of questions is really important.)
Local Boatmans Licence issued by the Harbour Master on behalf of the local Authority would be all that is required to take trips within the harbour limits, which will almost certainly include 'the bay'. They will also certify the boat for maximum loading, and any safety equpment that should be carried. It will need to be insured for public and third party liability as a minimum and surveyed periodically to ensure the hull, structure, machinery, installations and essential equipment are up to the job.
The boatmans licence is issued to someone who can demonstrate that they have a pulse and have good local maritime knowledge. Sod all the yachmaster balloney and look here, it also indicate harbour limits that someone could show you on a chart...
MCA boatmans stuff
I’d be very grateful if you could give me any help with these. I so want my novel to be accurate, and it’s infuriating when writers get basic details wrong.
HA! you should see on here when they get stuck into such shoddy works of literature, or after a bit of TV coverage of an ocean race, or even of the boat show!
Sorry for my appalling level of ignorance, but I live in Shropshire and there's no more land-locked county.
Try South Yorkshire, or Oxfordshire.
andy_wilson
Well-Known Member
Would you definitely need one of those qualifications to take people round a bay in a 27-foot boat with an engine and a small cabin at the front?
NO
NO
andy_wilson
Well-Known Member
RYA powerboat certificates
You don't need one of them either.
You don't need one of them either.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Re: RYA powerboat certificates
You tell the insurance company that......
You tell the insurance company that......
andy_wilson
Well-Known Member
Boatmans Ticket for Fowey / Polruan...
Is valid for trips upriver to the bridge, and out as far as a line drawn from the rocks to the castle at the far side (third picture down, between the ferry and Dan the ferry man).
Is valid for trips upriver to the bridge, and out as far as a line drawn from the rocks to the castle at the far side (third picture down, between the ferry and Dan the ferry man).
graham
Well-Known Member
hello Sandwife Im glad your getting some usefull stuff.
I operate boats that carry passengers and have both boatmaster and yachtmaster papers.
your character without much experience would be more likely to apply for a Local boatmasters license from the marine and Coast guard Agency (MCA). Usually he would be employed as a deckhand first then "trained up " as his/her experience increased.
when ready you apply to the MCA and an inspector comes and assesses you on the boat you will be using.
he will assess you on Local knowledge ie where the rocks and other hazards are etc .He will want to see a man over board rescue carried out .Usually with some old fenders or sometimes with a purpose made dummy.
The candidate will be asked questions on the Rule of the road at sea .Navigation buoys ligthouses etc,Navigating the boat in the area it will be used in,Controlling the passengers safely embarking disembarking ,safety briefs etc etc.He will have to demonstrate how to use the safety equipment on board such as pumps ,fire extinguishers,liferafts etc etc.
He would be asked questions about how to obtain Weather information and what weather would cause him to cancel a trip.
If the boat has radar he would possibly be asked to manouvere the boat around the bay with the windows blacked out.
prior to the exam he would need a first aid certificate ,a sea survival certificate (practical course on using lifejackets liferafts etc) a radio users license and a medical examination by an approved doctor.
It would be a lot to do in 6 months but if he allready knew the basics of handling the boat then it would be possible.
The requirements are slightly different in different areas.
I operate boats that carry passengers and have both boatmaster and yachtmaster papers.
your character without much experience would be more likely to apply for a Local boatmasters license from the marine and Coast guard Agency (MCA). Usually he would be employed as a deckhand first then "trained up " as his/her experience increased.
when ready you apply to the MCA and an inspector comes and assesses you on the boat you will be using.
he will assess you on Local knowledge ie where the rocks and other hazards are etc .He will want to see a man over board rescue carried out .Usually with some old fenders or sometimes with a purpose made dummy.
The candidate will be asked questions on the Rule of the road at sea .Navigation buoys ligthouses etc,Navigating the boat in the area it will be used in,Controlling the passengers safely embarking disembarking ,safety briefs etc etc.He will have to demonstrate how to use the safety equipment on board such as pumps ,fire extinguishers,liferafts etc etc.
He would be asked questions about how to obtain Weather information and what weather would cause him to cancel a trip.
If the boat has radar he would possibly be asked to manouvere the boat around the bay with the windows blacked out.
prior to the exam he would need a first aid certificate ,a sea survival certificate (practical course on using lifejackets liferafts etc) a radio users license and a medical examination by an approved doctor.
It would be a lot to do in 6 months but if he allready knew the basics of handling the boat then it would be possible.
The requirements are slightly different in different areas.
Sandwife
New Member
This has been so helpful. I need to print some of the posts out and read them more thoroughly, and investigate all the links, but thanks so much for taking the time to answer.
I'm thinking at this stage my hero (the non-sailing one) is going to assume giving boat trips are a quick and easy way of making money, but he'll find out it's too complicated.
The plot revolves around this bloke having 'disappeared' himself to escape an unhappy marriage, and fleeing to a remote bay on the Welsh coast. So far he's been living off bar work and by doing up holiday cottages for cash in hand, as he's anxious not to leave any kind of traceable 'paper trail'. For this reason he doesn't even drive a car. He just bums around, really. So to start taking exams or applying for licences or insurance would be an apparently insurmountable problem for him.
I see this realisation as being a pivotal moment, the point in the novel where it dawns on him he's going to have to go back and sort out the mess he left behind (his awful marriage) before he can really move on and make a new life. (There's some romantic stuff as well, a new partner, but I shan't bore you with that. There's also a good reason he takes off instead of starting proper divorce proceedings, but again too complicated to go into here.)
I'm thinking at this stage my hero (the non-sailing one) is going to assume giving boat trips are a quick and easy way of making money, but he'll find out it's too complicated.
The plot revolves around this bloke having 'disappeared' himself to escape an unhappy marriage, and fleeing to a remote bay on the Welsh coast. So far he's been living off bar work and by doing up holiday cottages for cash in hand, as he's anxious not to leave any kind of traceable 'paper trail'. For this reason he doesn't even drive a car. He just bums around, really. So to start taking exams or applying for licences or insurance would be an apparently insurmountable problem for him.
I see this realisation as being a pivotal moment, the point in the novel where it dawns on him he's going to have to go back and sort out the mess he left behind (his awful marriage) before he can really move on and make a new life. (There's some romantic stuff as well, a new partner, but I shan't bore you with that. There's also a good reason he takes off instead of starting proper divorce proceedings, but again too complicated to go into here.)
Plomong
Well-Known Member
Sandwife,
MagnaCarters and other replies have given excellent details, leads, etc. Some have even offered to validate any submitted draft extract to help ensure correctness in terminology, reasinableness, etc, etc.
All this seems to have surprised you!! ??? It should not, really. Most on here answer questions and give opinions and so on to help others of a kindred spirit.
As to who is who on these forums, in my humble opinion (IMHO) both MagnaCarter and Claymore stand out as very capable wordsmiths, with a good grasp of vocabulary and turn of phrase. Any offer of assistance from those quarters should be very useful indeed, IMHO.
MagnaCarters and other replies have given excellent details, leads, etc. Some have even offered to validate any submitted draft extract to help ensure correctness in terminology, reasinableness, etc, etc.
All this seems to have surprised you!! ??? It should not, really. Most on here answer questions and give opinions and so on to help others of a kindred spirit.
As to who is who on these forums, in my humble opinion (IMHO) both MagnaCarter and Claymore stand out as very capable wordsmiths, with a good grasp of vocabulary and turn of phrase. Any offer of assistance from those quarters should be very useful indeed, IMHO.
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
Claymore did not reply to this thread yet he got thanked over those who did?
What a bizarre reply, almost suggesting everyone is incorrect except magna yet in this case, without disrespect, magna was in fact incorrect. If anyone can find one of those old bearded gaffers who run holiday ferries with a yachtmaster I will eat my hat!
What a bizarre reply, almost suggesting everyone is incorrect except magna yet in this case, without disrespect, magna was in fact incorrect. If anyone can find one of those old bearded gaffers who run holiday ferries with a yachtmaster I will eat my hat!
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
well that made me laugh anyway!..... i'm off to look for a bearded gafffer /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
mrs sandwife, I posted you a PM earlier but you have not picked it up, just in case you are not aware of how it works, by your name in the top left of the screen is a flashing icon. Click on it to gain access to you private messages.
Maybe you saw it and deleted it, I just wanted to be sure you were aware of how it worked.
Maybe you saw it and deleted it, I just wanted to be sure you were aware of how it worked.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
I shall look forward to reading your book when it is published!
With the background you have summarised above, and all sorts of happenings going on, I am sure it can only be as successful as Libby Purves' novel (semi real life?) 'Casting Off'.
Watch out Libby, looks like you have some competition!
With the background you have summarised above, and all sorts of happenings going on, I am sure it can only be as successful as Libby Purves' novel (semi real life?) 'Casting Off'.
Watch out Libby, looks like you have some competition!
Plomong
Well-Known Member
MagnaCarter and Claymore were not thanked -- I just tried to point out that I think those two have specific talents as wordsmiths, neither more nor less.
As for the others who replied, yes -- they seem to have a better grasp of the relevant rules and regulations. On that, I did not comment, nor intend to comment.
Another point: apart from the two mentioned above, some others also stand out as eloquent on these fora, but their names escape me at this moment.
As for the help and assistance, opinions, etc offered so freely on these fora, I have been the very grateful receiver of such help, and appreciate it very much. A Reader to Reader thread about mounting instruments on a bulkhead using blind bolts was of especial assistance. Thanks to all who contributed.
As for the others who replied, yes -- they seem to have a better grasp of the relevant rules and regulations. On that, I did not comment, nor intend to comment.
Another point: apart from the two mentioned above, some others also stand out as eloquent on these fora, but their names escape me at this moment.
As for the help and assistance, opinions, etc offered so freely on these fora, I have been the very grateful receiver of such help, and appreciate it very much. A Reader to Reader thread about mounting instruments on a bulkhead using blind bolts was of especial assistance. Thanks to all who contributed.
William_H
Well-Known Member
If Sandwife feels like a little trip there is a fleet of somewhat similar boats taking tourists to St Michaels Mount in Cornwall. In this case no cabin and tiller steering. She could get real feel for the kind of operation she is talking about. olewill
Sandwife
New Member
Ooh, thank you to *everyone* - sorry if I didn't make that clear. I didn't get the thing about who you were replying to showing in the top line, and would have amended it if I'd spotted it.
Nor did I know about the PMs showing as a flashing email, so off to investigate those now.
Cheers
Kate
Nor did I know about the PMs showing as a flashing email, so off to investigate those now.
Cheers
Kate