Help paint wont stick

drew silverwitch

drew silverwitch

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I have a 1935 boat with teak hull. Modern paint just peels of in a couple of months, even so called marine paints.
I have tried taking it back to bare wood and treating it with cellulose sanding sealer, then 2 coats of meta primer, 3 coats of undercoat and 3 coats of white gloss and it has still started to peel after less than 12 months.
Does anyone know how to get the paint to stay on
thanks Drew
 
I've never used a sealer when painting wood. It might be worth trying a different primer, International Primocon has always worked for me. Other than that I can't see how you could do it differently. I take it the wood isn't damp?
 
Woodlouse said:
I've never used a sealer when painting wood. It might be worth trying a different primer, International Primocon has always worked for me. Other than that I can't see how you could do it differently. I take it the wood isn't damp?
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+1. Degrease, Primocon, then system.
 
I've successfully used Jotun's Vinyguard 88 as primer on teak. Far cheaper than International too. Good preparation and thorough degreasing helps!
 
Is this peeling off the topsides? Nice and cleanly? If so I would be suspecting leaking deck and damp wood. Been there I'm afraid and it was not possible to see the wood was damp. Otherwise teak has to be degreased - denatured alcohol.
 
Its the hull, the topsides are all varnished, we checked the hull with a moisture meter after stripping back, it was down to 4% before we put the primer on And I reckoned we would not get a better reading than that. Is denatured alcohol the same as the spirit sold in B&Q for fires, otherwise were do you get it from
 
drew silverwitch said:
Its the hull, the topsides are all varnished, we checked the hull with a moisture meter after stripping back, it was down to 4% before we put the primer on And I reckoned we would not get a better reading than that. Is denatured alcohol the same as the spirit sold in B&Q for fires, otherwise were do you get it from
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Denatured alcohol is methylated spirit; of course if you can get the colourless version that would be better.
 
drew silverwitch said:
Its the hull, the topsides are all varnished, we checked the hull with a moisture meter after stripping back, it was down to 4% before we put the primer on And I reckoned we would not get a better reading than that. Is denatured alcohol the same as the spirit sold in B&Q for fires, otherwise were do you get it from
Click to expand...

AntarcticPilot said:
Denatured alcohol is methylated spirit; of course if you can get the colourless version that would be better.
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Acetone would be better available from your local resin / grp supply house or one could use "gun cleaner" or "standard thinners" available from automotive refinishers suppliers for cleaning sprayguns.
Either of the above will degrease your teak. Acetone will also help dry the surface of the teak. - wear gloves (nitrile) otherwise you will degrease your skin and that is not pleasant if it happens - don't ask how I know!
 
tillergirl said:
Is this peeling off the topsides? Nice and cleanly? If so I would be suspecting leaking deck and damp wood. Been there I'm afraid and it was not possible to see the wood was damp. Otherwise teak has to be degreased - denatured alcohol.
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Err, does not the wood breath through the paint layers? so to many layers and the wood is stifled and will remain damp so shedding the many layers put on?
Just a thought :)

So a painted boat hull will allow some moisture through so as to take up in clincher and carvel build, and also allow moisture out, when laid up, so causing drying out
 
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AntarcticPilot said:
Denatured alcohol is methylated spirit; of course if you can get the colourless version that would be better.
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Clear stuff is sold as Bio Ethernal at b&q as part of the fireside real flame fires range. Only in larger stores. I use it in my origio cooker and it doesn't smell like the purple stuff.
 
Capt Popeye said:
Err, does not the wood breath through the paint layers? so to many layers and the wood is stifled and will remain damp so shedding the many layers put on?
Just a thought :)

So a painted boat hull will allow some moisture through so as to take up in clincher and carvel build, and also allow moisture out, when laid up, so causing drying out
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Are you saying I may be putting too many coats on, must admit I had not thought of that. Your logic makes sense now in a quandary, how many coats is enough
 
drew silverwitch said:
Are you saying I may be putting too many coats on, must admit I had not thought of that. Your logic makes sense now in a quandary, how many coats is enough
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Hi there, yes my thoughts are that too many coats of paint, especially primers and undercoats, just might be counter productive.
I was likening it to hulls that have been grp coated and observe that the whole grp over coating comes off and the wood underneath deteriorates somewhat.

As I understand it good quality Teak is pretty durable on its own, especially with the natural oils, but just how it deals with moisture within it self or moisture absorbed from other sources after being over painted, I am not sure.

If the over painting is minimal, because that's all it requires, (decorative purposes), then just perhaps any moisture in the Teak can pass through the paintworks and evaporate in the air?

Just a thought, as brought up on timber boats.
 
Capt Popeye said:
Hi there, yes my thoughts are that too many coats of paint, especially primers and undercoats, just might be counter productive.
I was likening it to hulls that have been grp coated and observe that the whole grp over coating comes off and the wood underneath deteriorates somewhat.

As I understand it good quality Teak is pretty durable on its own, especially with the natural oils, but just how it deals with moisture within it self or moisture absorbed from other sources after being over painted, I am not sure.

If the over painting is minimal, because that's all it requires, (decorative purposes), then just perhaps any moisture in the Teak can pass through the paintworks and evaporate in the air?

Just a thought, as brought up on timber boats.
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Given that you may be right then the cellulose sanding sealer would have made things worse not better DOH!
 
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I am going back a few years now, but I used to like using a silver paint as a primer and undercoat on timber that would absorb the paint into itself, this rarely came off, but would /could wear off if the boat rubbed on pillars /piles /quay side etc, but still adhered to the timber OK.
 
drew silverwitch said:
Are you saying I may be putting too many coats on, must admit I had not thought of that. Your logic makes sense now in a quandary, how many coats is enough
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No. Whilst the wood will be breathing to some extent you shouldn't get moisture traveling through the paintwork to an extent that the paint will stop adhering. As long as the wood is painted or otherwise sealed inside the hull and out then it shouldn't matter how many coats of paint there are. On my boat, albeit an oak hull the paint only started to come away after twenty years worth of coats, and that's an usually two undercoats coats and two top coats a year.

As I said before, the important thing is that the wood is dry to start with and since you did that I'd be looking at either the sealer or the primer as the cause of your problems.
 
HI, I am not much used to Teak on boats (only furniture) so can I dare ask if Teak allows moisture to travel along the grain, and so draw damp from a position away from where the painting trouble is evident?
Me being more used to Larch, Pine and Mahogany and Oak timbers, on boats, have experienced damp following the wood grain along and the peeling paint is where the damp seemed to end up. Which can be far from where the water ingress (causing damp timbers) actually is.
I guess / understand that what we are talking of is damp already in the timbers lifting the paint off, not damp penetrating through the paint into the timbers?
Just a thought.
 
Thanks for all your input.
I wonder if what I need is a professional who knows what he is doing when it comes to wood.
Has anyone any details of such a pro in Yorkshire and of how much it is likely to cost
Thanks Drew
 
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