Help in chosing a liveabord boat

[dmaher2007]

Hi all, first, the 4 things i know about the sea is, it comes in it goes out, goes up and goes down, that in essences is my sailing experience.... full stop. Long story short, she got the house, I got [content removed] ;-) anyway.... I have decided to buy a boat to live on, seems t be the best option for me, My question is, should it be a sail boat or a motor boat (sports cruiser)? I'm looking for something that's big enough for two people "planing ahead" and at some stage would love to be able to sail under its own power on long voyages that 2 can manage, I'm not afraid of hard work or to get stuck into tasks as required. Or should I take the easy option and buy a sports cruiser? Could you give me a list of good boats (sail and cruisers) to choose from, at least that will point me in the right direction. My budget is up to €100,000.00, Cheers ..

 

[Thedreamoneday]

Firstly, welcome to the forum, there's loads and loads of fantastic advice on here and some you need to take with a box of 'Saxa'.

It seems you've answered your own question about whether it's motor or sail by saying you want it to 'sail under its own power'

Where are looking to keep it, what is your annual spend for moorings etc.

My suggestion is to go to a local club, do a comp crew course, visit a local marina and chat to people and see if you can get on a few boats before you even think of parting with €100k

Good luck

 

[V1701]

You can get a decent boat that would be big enough for two to live on for your budget. Where are you going to moor it? Most marinas, e.g., specifically prohibit living on board but lots of us (myself included) do. What about a postal address? Do some sailing, go see some boats. First boat will tell you what you really need/want so wouldn't buy anything too unusual/out of the ordinary to start with. It's a very good time to be buying a boat & bear in mind a lot of asking prices are unrealistic. Avoid "projects"! If you don't know what you're looking at have a pre purchase survey done by a recommended surveyor. Also an engine check by someone who knows about marine engines - surveyors don't check engine thoroughly. Good luck & go for it but don't rush into anything...

 

[dmaher2007]

Thedreamoneday, Tks for the reply, mooring cost for me will be about €5000 a year Inc. electricity and use of all the facility's
That's based on a boat approx 34' Have you any suggestions as to what type of boat i could handle with my lack of experience?
If I'm going to do this, I want to get the right boat to have comfort and enough room to live in and one i can manage, Cheers

 

[Tranona]

Forget a sports cruiser. They are weekend toys and not suitable for living on particularly if you want to go anywhere as well. A largish displacement motorboat is a possibility, but choice is more limited if you want to go to sea rather than river or inland. Most choose a sailing cruiser or a motorsailer because these are most easily adapted to liveaboard life.

However as V1701 rightly says, finding somewhere to keep it and have access to the land based infrastructure you need to survive is more difficult than choosing and finding a boat. There are very few "official" residential moorings, particularly in the more densely populated parts of the country and costs can be very high.

The size of boat will depend on the standard of living you want and the amount of "stuff" you have. People do live on 25 footers but it is one step up from camping and life gets mush more comfortable when you get around 35'. However, for obvious reasons larger boats usually cost more to buy definitely cost more to run and moor.

Best not to look on a boat as a direct alternative to a flat but as a sailing boat that you can live on. So best to find out first whether you like sailing and boats before deciding whether you want to live on one.

 

[nauticalnomad]

There was a bloke in Foxs last week with a really well fit out Amel Maramu for sale for 116000 euros he had on it. So I guess he would negotiate etc on the price..
These boats are perfect for living on and long distance cruising for 2 people. Easy to sail and maneuver. They have everything you need on them as standard.
The boat was advertised in The Netherlands though. So if you do a search for Amel Maramu im sure you would find it or another. I would not buy a motor cruiser as the initial cost would be the cheap part. 2000 litres of fuel as opposed to a 150 litre tank in a sail boat.

 

[jordanbasset]

There was a bloke in Foxs last week with a really well fit out Amel Maramu for sale for 116000 euros he had on it. So I guess he would negotiate etc on the price..
These boats are perfect for living on and long distance cruising for 2 people. Easy to sail and maneuver. They have everything you need on them as standard.
The boat was advertised in The Netherlands though. So if you do a search for Amel Maramu im sure you would find it or another. I would not buy a motor cruiser as the initial cost would be the cheap part. 2000 litres of fuel as opposed to a 150 litre tank in a sail boat.

Is it this one, if so looks a good boat for the money
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1984/AMEL-Maramu-2833591/United-Kingdom#.Vb8kBvOqpHw

 

[rivonia]

First of all do not buy a motor boat. The reason is simply double costings. The fuel and the engine costs are HIGH.

Now as for sail boats..Great and so many choices. I would plumb for a catamaran. Size 11 meter by approx 4,5 meter. Cost around £60-£75K max. As this is a comfortable way to sail and so much room to LIVE on/in.

Find a good person who is an old salt who knows all about sailing boats to inspect with you. Once you find the one you like (ish) Do sea trials, test the engines. Then and only then get a FULL independant survey which includes everything. Get the engines fully tested including pressure trests. Make sure everything in the inventory is in FULL working order.

Finaly Go for it and good luck.

There are quite a few on the market. PLEASE go with some one who knows all about boats and sailing and

 

[Thedreamoneday]

There are far far more experienced people who will be able to point you in the rightish direction than me, I say rightish because everyone has different needs and wants.

I have only been enjoying sailing 2 years, during those I did the standard courses (RYA), bought a little bilge keeler, raced most weekends, joins a local club, a couple of charters, read & watched as much as I could, spoke to as many people that would talk back, listened, and then viewed/ looked at as many boats as I could. I then spent 6 months traveling to 5 different countries to find the best (new to me) boat I could for my money! I'd looked at 9 of the same model, then had a independent survey then full sea trials including putting the engine through its paces before I started negotiations.

I also ended up buying a completely different boat to what I 'thought' I was going to buy 2 years ago.

I've just sold the little bilge keeler, which I'd grown quite attached to because I learned so much from it, the money is buying some new instruments! (New toys

That's my journey so far, I couldn't have parted with the money I did 2 years ago because I didn't know what I wanted and even now I feel I'm still scratching the surface of this sport, which is absolutely the attraction to me, but I'm delighted with my new boat.

I'm sure there's loads of people who approached the way they went about things completely differently to what I did.

Hope that helps in some sort of way.

 

[dmaher2007]

Tks all, for the sound advice and for pointing me in the right direction................Cheers

 

[Bertramdriver]

Try this one
http://www.williamsandsmithells.com/used-boat/?Make=Bertram&Model=42&BoatID=5091586

 

[RAI]

One wee factor that you might consider, if you really are new to boating of any kind, is sea sickness. Try to take a trip on someone else’s 40ft boat at sea. If at all queasy, you might regret sea-going. Nevertheless, there are plenty of canals in Europe to enjoy without the billows. Whereas a sailing yacht might be good on the sea, a barge or similar makes the best canal / river cruiser and live aboard.
Regarding where to keep it, that may be dictated by your job. When retired, I suggest keeping it somewhere warm. Low cost airlines make keeping your boat / living aboard / abroad very viable and the lifestyle is so much better.

 

[lindsay]

Advice from Webb Chiled, US navigator who knows a thing or two. Now on sixth circumnavigation at 73, on choosing a sailboat.

Quote

There are really only three things to consider.

1. It should be fun to sail

2. It should hold together

3. It should LOOK GOOD when you are rowing away from it at an anchorage

All the rest is just harbour talk.

Unquote

Good luck!

 

[nauticalnomad]

Is it this one, if so looks a good boat for the money
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1984/AMEL-Maramu-2833591/United-Kingdom#.Vb8kBvOqpHw

Yes that is the one...

 

[blampied]

First of all do not buy a motor boat. The reason is simply double costings. The fuel and the engine costs are HIGH.

Now as for sail boats..Great and so many choices. I would plumb for a catamaran. Size 11 meter by approx 4,5 meter. Cost around £60-£75K max. As this is a comfortable way to sail and so much room to LIVE on/in.

Find a good person who is an old salt who knows all about sailing boats to inspect with you. Once you find the one you like (ish) Do sea trials, test the engines. Then and only then get a FULL independant survey which includes everything. Get the engines fully tested including pressure trests. Make sure everything in the inventory is in FULL working order.

Finaly Go for it and good luck.

There are quite a few on the market. PLEASE go with some one who knows all about boats and sailing and

Wrong!
Forget the idea of a sail boat, the correct motorboat is a lot less to run than you would imagine.
A single engine displacement or semi displacement motor boat will give you far more usable inside and outside space than an equivalent size sail boat. (50k will buy you a decent one)
Look to something like an Aquastar 33. It's like a small country cottage inside and is a good sea boat that will go anywhere.
The cost of fuel myth:-
1) sail boats spend a lot of time motoring. (So they are nothing more than a motor boat with auxillery flappy things and masts that take up huge amounts of your space)
2) If you travel at slow speed similar to a sail boat then you will burn a similar amount of fuel. (But you then also have the option if you want to get somewhere quick, burn extra fuel to do so)
3) the space in a hard top motor boat is far more light airy and usable than a sail boats cave.
4) the lower air draft of the correct MotorBiat will allow you to use the inland waterways, sail boat masts get in the way of bridges.

Note
We started living aboard an Aquastar 33 (370hp motor) the beginning of last year. It's plenty big enough for the two of us and room for occasional guests.
We Fuelled up in Alderney travelled up the channel to LeHavre, Up the Seine, through Paris, through the middle of France coming out into the Med at Port St Louis. (That burnt just under half a tank of fuel)
In the Med east to Marseille and Cassis, then west a couple of forays back into the inland waterways to Aigues Mortes etc, back into the Med West then South into the Spanish Med, down to Barcellona then back up port Roses just before the French border, refuel.. (That burnt just over half a tak of fuel) so in total in a year and a quarter, through not using excessive speed we burned a little over one tank of fuel.
Since then we continued North up the Med back into France then onto the Canal DuMidi and and currently at Toulouse (so about another quarter of a tank of fuel)

 

[Cheery]

A nice vessel for sale here from a forumite.

http://www.red-ensign.com/boats/dufour-36-classic/

 

[jordanbasset]

Wrong!
Forget the idea of a sail boat, the correct motorboat is a lot less to run than you would imagine.
A single engine displacement or semi displacement motor boat will give you far more usable inside and outside space than an equivalent size sail boat. (50k will buy you a decent one)
Look to something like an Aquastar 33. It's like a small country cottage inside and is a good sea boat that will go anywhere.
The cost of fuel myth:-
1) sail boats spend a lot of time motoring. (So they are nothing more than a motor boat with auxillery flappy things and masts that take up huge amounts of your space)
2) If you travel at slow speed similar to a sail boat then you will burn a similar amount of fuel. (But you then also have the option if you want to get somewhere quick, burn extra fuel to do so)
3) the space in a hard top motor boat is far more light airy and usable than a sail boats cave.
4) the lower air draft of the correct MotorBiat will allow you to use the inland waterways, sail boat masts get in the way of bridges.

Note
We started living aboard an Aquastar 33 (370hp motor) the beginning of last year. It's plenty big enough for the two of us and room for occasional guests.
We Fuelled up in Alderney travelled up the channel to LeHavre, Up the Seine, through Paris, through the middle of France coming out into the Med at Port St Louis. (That burnt just under half a tank of fuel)
In the Med east to Marseille and Cassis, then west a couple of forays back into the inland waterways to Aigues Mortes etc, back into the Med West then South into the Spanish Med, down to Barcellona then back up port Roses just before the French border, refuel.. (That burnt just over half a tak of fuel) so in total in a year and a quarter, through not using excessive speed we burned a little over one tank of fuel.
Since then we continued North up the Med back into France then onto the Canal DuMidi and and currently at Toulouse (so about another quarter of a tank of fuel)

Out of interest how big is the tank? Also what is your cruising speed and how many litres an hour does she use at that speed. Genuinely interested - thanks

 

[sailaboutvic]

Out of interest how big is the tank? Also what is your cruising speed and how many litres an hour does she use at that speed. Genuinely interested - thanks

Basset , he does have a 1000 lts tank

 

[jordanbasset]

Basset , he does have a 1000 lts tank

Hi Vic, I feel disloyal even thinking about going over to the 'dark side' but I can see it's attractions, mind you it didn't work out well for Anakin Skywalker

 

[Tranona]

Wrong!
Forget the idea of a sail boat, the correct motorboat is a lot less to run than you would imagine.
A single engine displacement or semi displacement motor boat will give you far more usable inside and outside space than an equivalent size sail boat. (50k will buy you a decent one)
Look to something like an Aquastar 33. It's like a small country cottage inside and is a good sea boat that will go anywhere.
The cost of fuel myth:-
1) sail boats spend a lot of time motoring. (So they are nothing more than a motor boat with auxillery flappy things and masts that take up huge amounts of your space)
2) If you travel at slow speed similar to a sail boat then you will burn a similar amount of fuel. (But you then also have the option if you want to get somewhere quick, burn extra fuel to do so)
3) the space in a hard top motor boat is far more light airy and usable than a sail boats cave.
4) the lower air draft of the correct MotorBiat will allow you to use the inland waterways, sail boat masts get in the way of bridges.

Note
We started living aboard an Aquastar 33 (370hp motor) the beginning of last year. It's plenty big enough for the two of us and room for occasional guests.
We Fuelled up in Alderney travelled up the channel to LeHavre, Up the Seine, through Paris, through the middle of France coming out into the Med at Port St Louis. (That burnt just under half a tank of fuel)
In the Med east to Marseille and Cassis, then west a couple of forays back into the inland waterways to Aigues Mortes etc, back into the Med West then South into the Spanish Med, down to Barcellona then back up port Roses just before the French border, refuel.. (That burnt just over half a tak of fuel) so in total in a year and a quarter, through not using excessive speed we burned a little over one tank of fuel.
Since then we continued North up the Med back into France then onto the Canal DuMidi and and currently at Toulouse (so about another quarter of a tank of fuel)

Just wonder why, if it is so attractive, so few people make this choice.

seriously, of course you can live on board a boat like yours and cruise in the way that you do. However, the number of boats like yours on the market is very limited whereas the there is a huge choice of sailing and motor sailors that are easily adapted for living on board. A sailing boat may well spend quite a lot of time using a motor, particularly in the Med where winds can be light, but for making long offshore passages or long range island hopping there is the choice of sailing. It is this flexibility that makes a sailing boat attractive.

It all boils down to the type of cruising you want to do - or indeed whether it is the cruising or the living aboard aspect of boating that is important. The kind of cruising pattern that you describe is probably better in a motor boat, particularly the ability to go in and out of the inland waterways network without the faff of dealing with a mast. However if you want to do the sort of cruising that is popular with some, such as going by sea to the Med and then going right across to Greece and Turkey, good sailing ability is really required. The compromises are all about the trade of between the living and the sailing side and the choice of boats available allows for a whole range of possibilities, as you can see in any marina or anchorage!