Greg2
Well-Known Member
I find if I close the fuel taps before removing the lid and top up with diesel from a can before putting the lid back on and opening the taps then bleeding is not required
Help - broken down boat!
- Thread starter petem
- Start date
I find if I close the fuel taps before removing the lid and top up with diesel from a can before putting the lid back on and opening the taps then bleeding is not required
kashurst
Well-Known Member
Kas, "if I remove the top to check the filter do I need to re-bleed? " No:- but you do need to bleed the separ filter assembly
you will need a 1L measuring jug or similar, a 10mm spanner, a 5L fuelcontainer or similar, lots of rag/kitchen roll
Close all the fuel valves first, put a container under the separ as it will be full to the brim and you will spill a bit ( errrr quite a lot first time). It will help if you release the bleed screw on the top first and drain out some diesel into a clean container - I use a 1 litre measuring jug then you can easily pour the drains into a separate container, like a 5 l fuel can. Then remove the spring assembly clamp thing, then slowly pull up the filter, very slowly push the new one back in, put spring assembly thingy in, then the lid back on and do up the bolts. Then open the fuel valves. Now undo the bleed screw in the top of the separ filter. Wait (15 - 40 seconds ish depends on how much fuel is in the tank) and the weight of fuel in the tank(s) will push the air out of the separ filter. once fuel is coming out of the bleed screw nip it up, job done. Tidy up the mess you just made, have a shower, throw clothes away
"Also, if changing at sea, is there a technique to avoid bleeding?" see above, but don't try changing at sea until you can do it with your eyes closed with one hand behind your back and it's pretty calm. Practice doing it in the safety of the marina. Don't do it at sea unless you absolutely have to, go into a harbour/anchorage on one engine and do it in relative safety.
"I assume you can get away without changing the o rings." technically that's a bad idea, If volvopaul is reading this skip the next paragraph - yes you can but don't make a habit of it. Don't over-tighten the 4 lid bolts. Don't be tempted to use instant gasket or similar on the seals. If after a change the separ is leaking, change the seal don't tighten the cr@p out of the bolts, that won't help. Whilst going through the "get the crap out of the tank phase," I think its OK to reuse the seal a few times. I find a 10mm ratchet spanner very useful for quick separ changes.
"Finally, what's the best source for filters?" Keypart works for me. other outlets are available.
you will need a 1L measuring jug or similar, a 10mm spanner, a 5L fuelcontainer or similar, lots of rag/kitchen roll
Close all the fuel valves first, put a container under the separ as it will be full to the brim and you will spill a bit ( errrr quite a lot first time). It will help if you release the bleed screw on the top first and drain out some diesel into a clean container - I use a 1 litre measuring jug then you can easily pour the drains into a separate container, like a 5 l fuel can. Then remove the spring assembly clamp thing, then slowly pull up the filter, very slowly push the new one back in, put spring assembly thingy in, then the lid back on and do up the bolts. Then open the fuel valves. Now undo the bleed screw in the top of the separ filter. Wait (15 - 40 seconds ish depends on how much fuel is in the tank) and the weight of fuel in the tank(s) will push the air out of the separ filter. once fuel is coming out of the bleed screw nip it up, job done. Tidy up the mess you just made, have a shower, throw clothes away
"Also, if changing at sea, is there a technique to avoid bleeding?" see above, but don't try changing at sea until you can do it with your eyes closed with one hand behind your back and it's pretty calm. Practice doing it in the safety of the marina. Don't do it at sea unless you absolutely have to, go into a harbour/anchorage on one engine and do it in relative safety.
"I assume you can get away without changing the o rings." technically that's a bad idea, If volvopaul is reading this skip the next paragraph - yes you can but don't make a habit of it. Don't over-tighten the 4 lid bolts. Don't be tempted to use instant gasket or similar on the seals. If after a change the separ is leaking, change the seal don't tighten the cr@p out of the bolts, that won't help. Whilst going through the "get the crap out of the tank phase," I think its OK to reuse the seal a few times. I find a 10mm ratchet spanner very useful for quick separ changes.
"Finally, what's the best source for filters?" Keypart works for me. other outlets are available.
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petem
Well-Known Member
Thanks, that's cheap, less than half the price of Keypart.
rbcoomer
Well-Known Member
I must admit I found that's the worst part too - the stench of diesel lingers forever!
burgundyben
Well-Known Member
Soz. Just seen this. Been in Lymington with the classic rally. Back home now. Have to go to Yarmouth first thing to hop on a boat. Will be in Cowes lunchtime ish. Will call you then.
petem
Well-Known Member
Hi Ben, thanks and no problem we thought you might be busy. I've got you number now so will send you an update in the morning. Hopefully it will be already resolved by lunchtime.
Bandit
Well-Known Member
The Cheapest filter elements are unlikely to be the best, Separ and Racor spend a lot on R&D to get consistent and reliable quality filter elements. Someone somewhere makes an elemnt to fit the filter housing and sell on price alone, they are often not the same quality or specification.
In a well managed diesel fuel system on a leisure boat that is clean and water free you will only change the filter elements at the annual service so the cost difference is minimal OEM to knockoff. Spare filter elements for a well managed fuel system are just that they should stay in their box gathering dust as they are spares in case you get a problem.
Use good filters, Monitor your fuel system, check the filter elements on a regular basis, drain the filter bowls, treat your diesel with a good biocide whenever you refuel, If you can remove water and crud from your tank, no water = no bug. If you have a problem get the fuel and tanks cleaned.
In a well managed diesel fuel system on a leisure boat that is clean and water free you will only change the filter elements at the annual service so the cost difference is minimal OEM to knockoff. Spare filter elements for a well managed fuel system are just that they should stay in their box gathering dust as they are spares in case you get a problem.
Use good filters, Monitor your fuel system, check the filter elements on a regular basis, drain the filter bowls, treat your diesel with a good biocide whenever you refuel, If you can remove water and crud from your tank, no water = no bug. If you have a problem get the fuel and tanks cleaned.
petem
Well-Known Member
Thanks all, ongoing management won't be an issue. I may buy some cheap filters as spares but will use OEM otherwise.
Thinking about it, could the Marine 16 have caused the issue, i.e. could it have loosened up whatever crud was happily sitting at the bottom of the tank? I think Flower Power alluded to this in another thread.
Regarding next steps, would I be able to inspect the fuel and the bottom of the tank by shining a torch down the sender aperture?
Thinking about it, could the Marine 16 have caused the issue, i.e. could it have loosened up whatever crud was happily sitting at the bottom of the tank? I think Flower Power alluded to this in another thread.
Regarding next steps, would I be able to inspect the fuel and the bottom of the tank by shining a torch down the sender aperture?
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Bandit
Well-Known Member
Fuel bug is not sitting happily at the bottom of your tank, it is breeding fast and it's excreta is making your diesel acidic which can damage the tank, I have seen the base of an aluminium tank corrode through from the inside in two years from new. It will also attack steel and stainless steel.
Treatment when you have a problem already will cause the bug to die and start to break up. This can cause a gumming up of the filter elements and a blockage.
When were the elements last pulled and inspected and what were they like? When was the biocide added?
Biocide should cost less than a penny per litre and will prevent major expense and repairs in the case of a contamination issue.
Diesel Boats should carry 3 or 4 sets of spare fuel filters, you may be over the worst it depends on how bad the contamination is.
Get a new or very clean Pella type vacuum pump, remove the sender and take a couple of litres from the tank bottom, put in to a clean white container and inspect for water and crud. Paint kettles work well for this from a DIY shop. White shows it all much better than coloured or clear containers.
Depending on tank shape and access a pella pump is a good start to remove water and crud.
You have water in the tank it needs to be got out.
Treatment when you have a problem already will cause the bug to die and start to break up. This can cause a gumming up of the filter elements and a blockage.
When were the elements last pulled and inspected and what were they like? When was the biocide added?
Biocide should cost less than a penny per litre and will prevent major expense and repairs in the case of a contamination issue.
Diesel Boats should carry 3 or 4 sets of spare fuel filters, you may be over the worst it depends on how bad the contamination is.
Get a new or very clean Pella type vacuum pump, remove the sender and take a couple of litres from the tank bottom, put in to a clean white container and inspect for water and crud. Paint kettles work well for this from a DIY shop. White shows it all much better than coloured or clear containers.
Depending on tank shape and access a pella pump is a good start to remove water and crud.
You have water in the tank it needs to be got out.
petem
Well-Known Member
I've no evidence of any existing fuel bug issue. No sign of any water or crud in fuel when some was run off from tap as part of the survey. The boat performed perfectly in the sea trial (on the old fuel and no biocide) and the Marine 16 was only added as a precautionary measure when topping the tanks up post purchase. Boat was purchased with half a tank of fuel that had probably been in there for some time. Boat last serviced 18 months ago with little use in the meantime. Filters probably 18 months old. Major service for engine's booked for two weeks time before being taken to France then trucked to Med.
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Bandit
Well-Known Member
Sounds like the boat had a bit of a problem and was not used for 18 months.
Most production boats do not have sumps and drains or stripping lines for easy owner water / crud removal.
You need to get on top of all problems on the boat before it leaves the uk where you speak the same language and problems do not eat in to valuable holiday time.
If I was you I would consider getting the tanks professionally cleaned, a lot easier to do in the Uk . As well as any other issues.
Most production boats do not have sumps and drains or stripping lines for easy owner water / crud removal.
You need to get on top of all problems on the boat before it leaves the uk where you speak the same language and problems do not eat in to valuable holiday time.
If I was you I would consider getting the tanks professionally cleaned, a lot easier to do in the Uk . As well as any other issues.
petem
Well-Known Member
The boat wasn't used much due to the previous owners being in poor health so nothing sinister there. Putting it on a truck with the resultant vibration will however likely further disturb anything that's in the tank.
Will look into tank cleaning but I would like to get a look in the tank first though and also see what the filters look like after another 10 hours of running.
Will look into tank cleaning but I would like to get a look in the tank first though and also see what the filters look like after another 10 hours of running.
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Bandit
Well-Known Member
I keep a small Pella type 2.5litre Pump on my boat for this it is only used for diesel fuel as if you use it for used engine oil it stains it.
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
As your Med bound and this has happened you need to find the exact reason why the engine stopped, if it's particles blocking the filter and causing a vacuum blockage clean the tank , if it's filled the racor with water it's travelled through the injection pump to the injectors stopping the engine because it won't run on water , whoever gets it going needs to tell you the reason why it stopped . Seems odd 1 engine stopped as you have 1 tank on the 34.
If it's water I'd be pulling the injectors and having them tested as there a 2 stage injection cycle on your motor , I read your having major service so if the valves are being set it not a lot more work to remove the injectors.
If it's water I'd be pulling the injectors and having them tested as there a 2 stage injection cycle on your motor , I read your having major service so if the valves are being set it not a lot more work to remove the injectors.
petem
Well-Known Member
Thanks Paul.
I believe the second engine was beginning to sound a bit rough too. I'll get some pics of the old filters once they are removed.
Injector testing already on the job list for the service.
I believe the second engine was beginning to sound a bit rough too. I'll get some pics of the old filters once they are removed.
Injector testing already on the job list for the service.
CCJ
Well-Known Member
Thanks, just looked and that will be around £250 (membership plus call out fee), not cheap but worth considering if we get stuck.
Just heard from my partner, he's drained some liquid out of the filters and its looking rather rusty so pretty certain it's blocked fuel filters. I assume he'll be able to get some filters tomorrow (plus spares) and change them over.
Pete
a spare set of filters on board would be much cheaper + you will have to buy them at top $ from the engineer now
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
P B Asher in Southampton this week quoted me £32 + vat to test all 12 of my injectors, with any requiring work extra of course. On my Winter job list.
petem
Well-Known Member
Ordering spares was on my to do list for this week!
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Excellent point.
I half thought to mention this when I read the thread, but I didn't want to sound a scaremonger: my main fear (hence the other thread I posted on this subject) with fuel troubles is that if they find their way to the injectors, the repair bill can be much worse than the cost/time/nuisance involved in replacing filter... :ambivalence:
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Doh! Is that a typo, or what?
Less than 3 quids to remove, check and reinstall one injector?!?