Heaviest anchor without a windlass?

graham

graham

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Anchor will be on 30 meters of 8 mm chain.

Anchor handler is a moderately strong 62 year old male.

Boat is a 26 foot heavy built bilge Keeler.Bow roller is big and runs freely.
 
I have a 12kg Kobra with 30 meters of 8mm chain plus rope on a 32 foot H323 and no windlass. Not too heavy to haul up but I have been considering changing to 50m of 6mm chain.
 
I've currently got a 15kg anchor on 60m of 10mm chain. Can pull up by hand in very light conditions, but need the (manual) windlass to break out or if there's any real wind.
 
Thanks for the replies.I was thinking of 10 or 12 kg so should be manageable by the sound of it.
 
From our experience 15kg is about the limit, with 8mm chain. Sometimes our old solenoid would lock and become unusable and I'd retrieve by hand. If its benign its not too difficult but if there is any breeze you can struggle. Breaking the anchor out should never be an issue. Retrieve till the chain is vertical and then let the bounce of the bow break the anchor out - but you don't need to be moving in a hurry.

You can of course lift any anchor using a sheet winch and a long dyneema strop with a chain hook on one end. It would be very slow - but possible.

The other big issue is - what do you do with your 30m of chain - you cannot retrieve and pack away neatly at the same time, nor can you wash the chain. A windlass self packs for you leaving you time to admire the view or wash the chain.

Jonathan
 
Consider the depths you normally anchor in and don't forget the weight of the chain. If you anchor in 4m with a 15kg anchor and 8mm chain, the total lift is about 22kg - not too bad. If you anchor in 20m it will be more like 44kg!

Before I had a windlass I always used rope with a minimum of chain.
 
Friend and I made two CQR clones for his 13 tonne gaffer, they came out at near 50kg each. Excellent holding, but way too heavy to man handle!
 
Well someone had to mention it so... if you go for a “new generation” anchor you’ll not need such a heavy beast to be hauling on. On my last boat (26ft but lighter than yours) I replaced a 15kg CQR with a 7kg Manson Supreme. Coupled with some 6mm chain you’d be retrieving half the weight I reckon.
 
fredrussell said:
Well someone had to mention it so... if you go for a “new generation” anchor you’ll not need such a heavy beast to be hauling on. On my last boat (26ft but lighter than yours) I replaced a 15kg CQR with a 7kg Manson Supreme. Coupled with some 6mm chain you’d be retrieving half the weight I reckon.
Click to expand...

This man should be flogged, quarantined, excommunicated- silenced - unconformity to the mantra 'Bigger is Better' must be suppressed.

Fred - thanks for a little breath of fresh air.

Jonathan
 
graham said:
Thanks for the replies.I was thinking of 10 or 12 kg so should be manageable by the sound of it.
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Sounds good to me.

15kg is doable but you struggle when the chain is right up and down, in deep water. The Channel Isles at springs is one area where you can end up like this.

.
 
In our thirties, we used a 25lbs anchor on 60ft of 5/16 chain plus rope on our boat.

Pulled it up over 400 times on that trip and never really had any problems until Bar Harbour, Maine. It was very crowded and we had to anchor in over 100ft of water. Getting it back up all covered in weed was hard work.
 
A lot will depend on the boat set-up, as well as the depth of water you normally anchor in.

A chain stopper that will automatically grip the chain when the pressure is released and prevent it running out, makes a large difference. Other details such as the size of the bow roller and even if you have a secure place to stand without leaning over the side is important.

It also helps enormously to have an anchor design that sets reliably. Resetting the anchor multiple times can be very tiring. Without a windlass it is very tempting to accept a result where you suspect everything is not as it should be.

On our first boat the ergonomics were rather poor for pulling in the anchor chain. We had a 13kg anchor and 60m of 6mm chain. This was easily managed. It was only in deep water (anything over 15m) where it became a struggle. With 8mm chain the depth of water is going to be more important. 15m of 8mm chain weighs around 22kg with a 15kg anchor this is dead lift of 37kg. The combination will weigh slightly less in water, but there is also likely to be some mud or sand on anchor. With a bilge keel boat this sort of anchoring depth is very unusual so this is likely not to be an issue, but it depends on the cruising ground.

The other problem to consider is if you drag into deeper water. Even a short drag can put the boat in over 30m of water in many locations. The total dead lift now becomes 59kg. You can motor into shallower water, dragging the chain and anchor, but this is difficult to do in stronger wind and risks catching the anchor on something. A backup system of retrieving this weight with the sheet or halyard winches is not difficult to arrange, but set this up (and test it) beforehand. This will also work if you have an injury (such as a back injury) that prevents you lifting the anchor in a more normal situation.

I think the general consensus in the thread of a 15kg anchor is about right. I would give some thought to reducing the chain size to 6mm, as this would make a significant difference. A heavier anchor and 6mm chain is going to be easier than a lighter anchor and 8mm chain. This is likely to be more secure and you can also extend the length of chain carried for the same overall weight. Normally I am not a great fan of the corrosion problems associated with thinner G7 chain, but I think without a windlass this is the sensible choice. Unfortunately, I think (check) that commercial galvanised G7 (or higher) chain is not available in 6 mm so this means buying lifting chain (say G10) and arranging the galvanising yourself.
 
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I've had a 10Kg Delta on 17m of chain for several years, and could pull it all up without drama most of the time, though I have had to drive it out when well dug in a few times. I was seriously ill a couple of years ago, and lost a lot of strength, so I've changed to much the same length of 6mm chain, which is fine now, though I'm looking at ways to leave the anchor on the roller when I pick up my mooring, rather than having to manhandle it around the foredeck.
 
SA Anchor windlass (3).jpg

25ft Bilge keeler ... 4ton AUW ....

Holdfast plough 12kg ..... 8mm all chain .....

Its a slog to get it up but as they say - slow and steady .. don't rush it.

I have used the windlass - but its too slow !

>>>>>>> Must get the brush and paint out when weather improves !!
 
Refueler said:
View attachment 85745

25ft Bilge keeler ... 4ton AUW ....

Holdfast plough 12kg ..... 8mm all chain .....

Its a slog to get it up but as they say - slow and steady .. don't rush it.

I have used the windlass - but its too slow !

>>>>>>> Must get the brush and paint out when weather improves !!
Click to expand...
I have a similar windlass and it is very slow, as you say. I usually haul in the chain by hand.

One of these days i intend to fit a pawl to hold the chain while I take a breather.

I fitted my windlass just in front of the coachroof so I can sit down comfortably while operating the windlass.

One of the greatest convenience I find with the windlass is being able to let the chain run out under perfect control.

side view.jpgPicture1.jpg
 
I found that waiting for the boat to be pulled forward by the catenary, then hauling in the chain till it is more or less straight, waiting couple of minutes for the catenary to return, repeat and so on, was an effective system for man hauling a 20kg anchor on 8mm chain. Once I reached 65 I succumbed to an electric windlass. Tend to agree that 15Kg is about right for hand hauling.
 
Poignard said:
I have a similar windlass and it is very slow, as you say. I usually haul in the chain by hand.

One of these days i intend to fit a pawl to hold the chain while I take a breather.

I fitted my windlass just in front of the coachroof so I can sit down comfortably while operating the windlass.

One of the greatest convenience I find with the windlass is being able to let the chain run out under perfect control.
Click to expand...

I haven't used my windlass for a long time - but I seem to remember that the gypsy had a clutch that could lock it during heaving ... slack the clutch to let go or heave - tighten to hold ?
 
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