Heater matrix?

[colhel]

Do many boats have heating via the engine cooling like cars do? Would it be possible to retro fit to a tamd41a or something? Or, more simply, could it be fitted to the calorifier and pumped round in a loop?
I'm having a rainy day pondering moment by the way

 

[jrudge]

Not that I know of.

The thing to bear in mind is

1. Boat spend time in port. Your solution would require the engine running. Heating underway is rarely the issue.

2 cars are very small. Just like car air con. The heat output is small and by comparison your boat is large.

 

[andy59]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192285208589
something like this Colin ?, engine will need to be doing some work to make it effective though.

 

[Machaseo]

ASAP Supplies sell one or used to, branded as Hotpot if I remember correctly, I fitted one in a cabin RIB awhile back and it worked a treat so long as the engine was up to temperature, didn't work so well at tick over.
Not sure I would do it again given the cost of the some of the imported "alternative" diesel heater now available.

 

[jdc]

Ironically perhaps it's not so uncommon on sailing boats venturing far afield. I fitted a Mikuni 'silencio' matrix in parallel with the calorifier on my boat prior to a trip into the far (like 80 degrees) north, and it was a wonderful thing to have for drying bedding etc.

Much better than the Eberspacher type thing because the volume of air is greater and the temperature lower: the matrix heats the whole cabin rather than creating a few concentrated hot spots, and does it in about 1/4 the time.

 

[[165042]]

Quite a lot of boats have de-misters fitted which run off of the cooling system of an inboard.

I fitted one of these to my ACM Elite 31:

https://www.indelwebastomarine.com/us/products/heat-exchanger/our-air-heater/

It also provided heating to the head and cockpit. I didn't want a diesel heater like an eberspacher as the noise and smell at night isn't pleasant and shore power ran a radiator and fan heater if required.

 

[jrudge]

Ironically perhaps it's not so uncommon on sailing boats venturing far afield. I fitted a Mikuni 'silencio' matrix in parallel with the calorifier on my boat prior to a trip into the far (like 80 degrees) north, and it was a wonderful thing to have for drying bedding etc.

Much better than the Eberspacher type thing because the volume of air is greater and the temperature lower: the matrix heats the whole cabin rather than creating a few concentrated hot spots, and does it in about 1/4 the time.

Is this an Admission that sail boats use engines more than the flappy things ? In Mallorca I guess 30% have their sails up. I mentioned this to a sailor over a drink. He said they all use the all the time. ?

 

[jdc]

Is this an Admission that sail boats use engines more than the flappy things ? In Mallorca I guess 30% have their sails up. I mentioned this to a sailor over a drink. He said they all use the all the time. ��

It's absolutely true that in the high arctic sailing boats use engines almost 100% of the time as it's either flat calm or a screaming blizzard! But getting there (9 1/2 days from Stornoway to Spitzbergen, non stop) we used sails 100% of the time.

 

[Alanij]

It should be possible to fit some sort of heater matrix to a TAMD41A - I have twin TAMD41Ps, and the standard screen demisting works off the cooling system on one of them, the calorifier off the other.
Bear in mind what others have said about being in port and the relatively small heat output compared to the internal volume of any boat.
Using the calorifier and a pumped loop to a matrix also seems a bit inefficient as a method of heating a boat.

 

[[165042]]

I think you'd be surprised as to how efficient they are - after all every car works this way and the cooling circuit on a boat is considerably larger. The matrix I used was rated at 10kw - more than enough to heat the cockpit when idling at the dock on a cold morning.

Be aware that some engine manufacturers (Volvo) issue warnings about over-cooling an engine this way - so check the manual.

 

[bowler]

They are a common feature in ski and wake boats manufactured in the USA.

https://www.nautiqueparts.com/product-category/accessories-2/heaters-showers/

D

 

[jrudge]

Can I ask why anyone would fit one of these?

I have no doubt it will work when the engine is running, but rather like AC in the med when underway - its a nice to have - but the thing that matters is when the boat is in use as a "hotel".

If you fit this you then need 2 separate systems - one for under way one for in port which does not make sense. Also the diesel heaters use next to no diesel so cost can't be the issue.

 

[[165042]]

I very rarely use my boat as a 'hotel'. It's used for day trips mainly around the Solent and if I do overnight anywhere it always has shorepower. In winter I can have the cabin warm in 10 minutes for a run out for lunch somewhere from waste engine heat. In addition I can isolate the heater circuit in summer and it blows fresh air in. It was a simpler install and cheaper than a diesel heater which I didn't have much use for.

 

[Trundlebug]

I fitted a Webasto Madera 8kw matrix to our wheelhouse cruiser some years ago.
It plumbs in to the same ports as the calorifier tappings on the head. Dead easy. Just fit a couple of hose tails with BSP fittings.
So we have the calorifier running off the port engine, and the matrix heater off the starboard engine.

The reason? Well several fold really:-
1. Why burn even more diesel when there is plentiful waste heat on tap? Do you stand at the helm setting fire to £20 notes? Why not?
2. It extends the cruising season; we've been on an Easter shakedown cruise in UK hail, snow and frost cruising for 7-8 hrs on the inland network and coastal routes, sitting comfortably inside in 20-22 degC all day. Not everyone blasts at 30kn for an hour in the Med then moors up! For some it's about the journey as much as the destination
3. The fan on the engine matrix heater is much more powerful than the diesel fired heater we use when moored up away from hook up. So drying wet clothes is quicker and easier. 8kw vs 3kw
4. It was easy to fit, so why not, given the advantages above? The heater is installed below the cooker and blows out from the plinth just above the floor in the galley, just the right height and heats the whole boat.

I installed a hotter thermostat on the stbd engine when fitting the heater; 89deg vs 82 deg for the port engine (calorifier). An old trick I learnt from owning classic Minis.
It makes a significant difference to the heater performance.

The boat already had a diesel fired heater so this is just an extra bit of luxury to make life even more comfortable when out and about.

 

[jrudge]

1. Why burn even more diesel when there is plentiful waste heat on tap? Do you stand at the helm setting fire to £20 notes? Why not?

It was a genuine question as I could not really see why heat would be required in any weather you ( well I ) would want to go boating in other than when stationary.

Do bear in mind a diesel heater per the web uses .28l per hour of diesel. I dont know the 60/40 price of UK diesel , but call that 30 p per hour - so it is not really tearing up £20 notes!

One unit linked to was E300, add I guess the same for ducting etc - call it £500 - which is some 1500 hours of a diesel heater!

 

[Trundlebug]

I didn't pay anything like that sort of money for mine (and wouldn't have done).
It was about £130-ish I think, so not crazy at all, although I appreciate they have probably gone up quite a bit since then.

I think the fuel burn rating for my diesel fired heater is about 1L per hr, so on that basis for 5-8 hrs, over the course of a fortnight's holiday it can get significant.
Had it for about 8 years now, and use it extensively in spring and autumn cruises, and sometimes even in summer time in a cold UK morning.

There's no ducting involved, as the matrix sits right behind the plinth and blows directly out through 4 (directable) nozzles.
Only other cost was the 2 hose tails, some heater hose for the water, and a 3 position switch for the fan. And some wire. All negligible in the grand scheme of things.

 

[moresparks]

This is interesting as I was thinking of fitting one to extend the season. I like the idea of ducting to keep the windscreen clear as well. I have twin petrol engines and there has been some confusion or conflicting stories of fitting a diesel fired heating system with petrol due to safety concerns. I have the calorifier one engine so could fit the matrix on the other. I have looked at the “Hotpot” system but up to now never seen any reports or reviews on the system.

 

[Trundlebug]

I would have liked to fit ducting up to demist the windscreen but the physical layout of the boat prevented me doing that, at least in any kind of elegant or invisible way.
So I had to resort to fitting electrical demisters, which are not quite as good but work well enough.

I was surprised at how quiet they are (brushless motors) but should only be used in 2-3 minute bursts as they chew up 20A fuses otherwise

 

[[165042]]

One unit linked to was E300, add I guess the same for ducting etc - call it £500 - which is some 1500 hours of a diesel heater!

Which is still less than half the cost of buying and installing a diesel heater - which also require servicing regularly or go wrong.

 

[colhel]

Sorry to churn up another heater thread, but just to update.
It appears my boat already has one fitted as a window defroster. I found it yesterday whilst rummaging behind the recess where the fridge once was, very difficult to access still but it looks like there's 3 heat outlets. The original Volvo diesel heater is now passed it, so am now looking at plugging that ducting into the matrix unit.
The unit is manufactured by a Swedish company called Martec Paasad, though I suspect my own unit is long discontinued.

https://www.martec.se/defroster-varmluftsaggregat/defroster-minipassad-4-3kw-12v.html