V1701
Well-Known Member
Another thread worth a look...
Heater for small boat
- Thread starter Euphonyx
- Start date
Euphonyx
Well-Known Member
Wow. A lot has happened here since I went to the office this morning! Lots of food for thought. I do like the thought of a solid fuel or a diesel stove. The only trouble is space. I saw the small samphire stove. That looks impressive and has a nice character to it. It might just be a bit big for the boat. I know the modern heaters are terribly efficient and all that but something that adds a bit of a cosy cabin feeling on a sleety winter night would be more my thing.. Keep the suggestions coming everyone. This is great!
Euphonyx
Well-Known Member
Dylan has a sure-fire way to heat his boat.
I am concerned about Dylan being sizzled by his shrine!
Poignard
Well-Known Member
I used to have a charcoal heater which gave out a lot of heat but was messy.
Now I have a very old Taylors paraffin heater which is clean to use, economical and it doesn't require an electrical supply itself. But I plan to install an low wattage 12v computer fan to move the warm air around the saloon.
Seems like a good solution to me.
Now I have a very old Taylors paraffin heater which is clean to use, economical and it doesn't require an electrical supply itself. But I plan to install an low wattage 12v computer fan to move the warm air around the saloon.
Seems like a good solution to me.
onesea
Well-Known Member
Just an obvious, speculative thought which always occurs to me when the dangers of yacht central heating are mentioned...
...isn't it infinitely preferable to have a heating unit which operates remotely from the place where the warmth is delivered?
If the burner could reside in a separate cockpit locker, heating water or air which is then pumped into the cabin, then fumes and moisture caused by combustion wouldn't need any clever removal, and it would alleviate that inevitable grave concern about 'the silent killer'.
I can't think of any yacht I've seen that didn't have capacious cockpit lockers, completely separate from the yacht's interior. So does it make sense to rely on an internal location for a system which, by necessity, pumps out lethal gases, and may even kill through leaks?
Seems like an elementary design decision.
+1
Looking at heating on our present boat, I think when we get that far it will be a Benco or similar.
I just hate the idea of the noise and power draw of the Hot air blown..
Euphonyx
Well-Known Member
What about condensation? Does it create a lot?
saltylegs
Well-Known Member
I fitted a Whale hs2000 blow heater this year, I cant post link as I went direct to the factory, It is more or less a reworked/badged propex heater runs of LPG but the hs2000E version also runs of 240v as well as LPG so you can get free heat if you are on lecky hookup.
Dry clean air thermostaticly controled and less than half the price of the oil burners as well as quiter and less power consumption.
Dry clean air thermostaticly controled and less than half the price of the oil burners as well as quiter and less power consumption.
Euphonyx
Well-Known Member
Would a Samphire Heater suit your Samphire??? I have been using a catalytic heater (portable) but its a bit fumey and dampens up the atmosphere. Am interested in your new boat with the Bengco!
saltylegs
Well-Known Member
I would never have an LPG flueless heater on board, either catalytic or plague. I have recently been involved in testing some brand new CE approved heaters that did not meet the CO / CO2 emission test especially on low setting.
Euphonyx
Well-Known Member
Very good. Great blog. Am saving it up for long winter nights. Will keep an eye out for a victory. It looks quite big. I also have an origo but have known without a meter that it's a bloody danger. Very fumey!
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Umm...sorry to be a one-track ignoramus here...not an area I know about...but the deadly emissions theme seems ineradicable...has nobody ever really thought seriously about relocating the heater, whatever it be, to a position where fumes and moisture won't matter?
Euphonyx
Well-Known Member
Umm...sorry to be a one-track ignoramus here...not an area I know about...but the deadly emissions theme seems ineradicable...has nobody ever really thought seriously about relocating the heater, whatever it be, to a position where fumes and moisture won't matter?
Wouldn't that take the soul out of the thing? Clinically, you are perfectly correct......
saltylegs
Well-Known Member
Umm...sorry to be a one-track ignoramus here...not an area I know about...but the deadly emissions theme seems ineradicable...has nobody ever really thought seriously about relocating the heater, whatever it be, to a position where fumes and moisture won't matter?
On a flueless heater most of the available heat is contained in the products of combustion (poc's) so if you put a heater in a safe place then you are not going to get any heat from it.
Some of the mordern heaters need to be in a room no smaller than 80 cubic metres with fixed ventilation of 100cm2 at both high and low level (dont try that on a boat)
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Okay...take a deep breath...
Hmm. Well, I warned you that I know very little about this...but, to me, that sounds like a very weak standpoint from which to justify the ongoing potential endangerment of users/customers of expensive cabin-heating systems.
Half of the posts I ever read on the forum about heaters, seem to relate to owners' dread of going to bed warm, then never waking up. A natural enough fear, but scarcely one without a solution, surely?
Why aren't all heaters safely installed in vented lockers? I'm grateful for Saltylegs' reply here, but I didn't understand it, so I still can't believe the positioning of heaters somewhere other than the accommodation, necessarily prohibits efficient operation.
Having precisely no budget, my plans tend to be...pretty modest...but whenever I contemplate modifying a keelboat or small cabin boat for a bit of all-season cruising, I think about cabin-heating immediately, as a way to make the whole business cosily bearable...
...but, I reckon I'd rather not have a heater, than share the limited airspace of the cabin with it!
Now, here's how crazy my idea is...so you can conclude for yourselves whether you'd sooner just switch on the Hell's Heater and take a dance with death, as you kip...
...I figured, I'd find space for a not-very-big LPG burner, beneath a boiler (effectively a big kettle), and the two can live together in an insulated, ventilated box, somewhere effectively outside, like a vented cockpit locker...
...a thermostat detects when the boiler's contents reach...I don't know...70ºc? Then it starts a pump, which sends the heated water into pipes that run beneath the cabin floor. I believe one can buy ready-made pipe-panels for the purpose. As it runs through the pipe-manifold, the water cools and is piped back to the boiler, ready to be heated again...
...not very complicated, but then, it's only as clever as I am.
But, dare I suggest, that my little idea wouldn't demand any problematic ventilation requirements, nor make a big issue out of "products of combustion"?
...granted it would need approval by a gas engineer, and a fail-safe / fire-safety plan...
...but assuming some degree of competence in the fitting, what part of my plan would NOT work? I believe it would fulfil two basic aims: it would provide a warm cabin floor, and achieve that without ever, ever leaking carbon monoxide into the cabin!
Why on earth can't the big manufacturers manage that?
Hmm. Well, I warned you that I know very little about this...but, to me, that sounds like a very weak standpoint from which to justify the ongoing potential endangerment of users/customers of expensive cabin-heating systems.
Half of the posts I ever read on the forum about heaters, seem to relate to owners' dread of going to bed warm, then never waking up. A natural enough fear, but scarcely one without a solution, surely?
Why aren't all heaters safely installed in vented lockers? I'm grateful for Saltylegs' reply here, but I didn't understand it, so I still can't believe the positioning of heaters somewhere other than the accommodation, necessarily prohibits efficient operation.
Having precisely no budget, my plans tend to be...pretty modest...but whenever I contemplate modifying a keelboat or small cabin boat for a bit of all-season cruising, I think about cabin-heating immediately, as a way to make the whole business cosily bearable...
...but, I reckon I'd rather not have a heater, than share the limited airspace of the cabin with it!
Now, here's how crazy my idea is...so you can conclude for yourselves whether you'd sooner just switch on the Hell's Heater and take a dance with death, as you kip...
...I figured, I'd find space for a not-very-big LPG burner, beneath a boiler (effectively a big kettle), and the two can live together in an insulated, ventilated box, somewhere effectively outside, like a vented cockpit locker...
...a thermostat detects when the boiler's contents reach...I don't know...70ºc? Then it starts a pump, which sends the heated water into pipes that run beneath the cabin floor. I believe one can buy ready-made pipe-panels for the purpose. As it runs through the pipe-manifold, the water cools and is piped back to the boiler, ready to be heated again...
...not very complicated, but then, it's only as clever as I am.
But, dare I suggest, that my little idea wouldn't demand any problematic ventilation requirements, nor make a big issue out of "products of combustion"?...granted it would need approval by a gas engineer, and a fail-safe / fire-safety plan...
...but assuming some degree of competence in the fitting, what part of my plan would NOT work? I believe it would fulfil two basic aims: it would provide a warm cabin floor, and achieve that without ever, ever leaking carbon monoxide into the cabin!
Why on earth can't the big manufacturers manage that?
David2452
Well-Known Member
Though I rarely recommend used vehicle heaters on boats due to their lower fan speeds and inability to cope with long runs, IMHO in this instance and if that is what your buget allows and where a single outlet would (probably) suffice, the simplest, cleanest, most efficient, least space consuming and most importantly safe install would be a used Ebo, Webo, Mikuni or Wallas, the smallest of each would suffice. As for "feeling" warm, the best way of feeling warm on a sleety evening is to actually be warm and the best way to wake up warm (and alive) is a blown air system properly installed with a simple timer. The charm of solid fuel can not be denied and I do a lot on narrow boats, wide beam barges etc (often in tandem with wet diesl fired boilers for morning convenience) but for a 27' cruising yacht, just too much clat and in my opinion inapropriate.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
None at all. The products of combustion (water and deadly carbon monoxide) go safely up the chimney.
In fact the system ventilates the boat by drawing fresh air into the boat.
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Any flueless device with an open flame will produce moisture, and the deadly CO. The amount seems to vary widely. It will also use up oxygen. The exception is a catalytic heater, which although it does not / should not produce CO (I am told they can do so if they are not working properly), does still burn oxygen, and does produce moisture.
We used to use one in a caravan. The moisture was not a problem, just a bit more condensation on the windows (it was an old van with ordinary safety glass windows, not double glazed), and we always allowed a bit of through draft ventilation to replenish oxygen.
The little portable gas cartridge heaters you can buy in places like Halfords are a big no-no in a boat without great care. Yes they are efficient, and are expensive to run - a gas cannister only lasting a few hours. But there must be an absolute 100% discipline that the cannister is changed ONLY on deck - not even in the cockpit. There is always an escape of gas with this system on cartridge change, and in a boat this will not disperse. Even in tents there have been some horrific accidents.
Flued heaters are a lot more expensive, but are a great deal safer in use, and will produce dry heat - important on board.
We used to use one in a caravan. The moisture was not a problem, just a bit more condensation on the windows (it was an old van with ordinary safety glass windows, not double glazed), and we always allowed a bit of through draft ventilation to replenish oxygen.
The little portable gas cartridge heaters you can buy in places like Halfords are a big no-no in a boat without great care. Yes they are efficient, and are expensive to run - a gas cannister only lasting a few hours. But there must be an absolute 100% discipline that the cannister is changed ONLY on deck - not even in the cockpit. There is always an escape of gas with this system on cartridge change, and in a boat this will not disperse. Even in tents there have been some horrific accidents.
Flued heaters are a lot more expensive, but are a great deal safer in use, and will produce dry heat - important on board.
apogee
Well-Known Member
Two perfect answers to this one. Refleks. Dickinson.
V1701
Well-Known Member
For "casual" use an Origo Heatpal or Contoure Heatmate 5200 might suit. Also useful as a back-up stove. £150 ish. IMO if you can afford it and can live with the noise & electrical power requirement blown air is good. For liveaboard though something that takes air from the cabin and is flued, i.e. drip feed diesel or solid fuel, e.g...
oldvarnish
Well-Known Member
Mmm. Not my experience at all. Kept me warm during an early season Nova Scotia cruise the other year when there was frost on the decks every morning.
Didn't make any mess, if you're careful, and no CO alarm went off. I think much may depend on the installation.
