Heading north in a small yacht.. boat suggestions, weather protection and systems advice please

I definitely recommend good leather sea boots - Dubarrys or similar. Ski mitts can be nice if at the helm for a long time. Woolly hat obviously.

Having resisted really expensive oilskins for a long time, I am now fully converted to the dreaded Musto three layer system with merino base layer, Goretex mid layer and HPX on top. In assembling this lot, which costs a fortune, it can help to keep an eye on Musto’s occasional sales.

I had a solid fuel stove for some decades and liked it but I am now thinking of a diesel one.
 
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As often happens some of your boat. requirements are contradictory. As many others have said bilge keels really don't have any advantages for the type of sailing you are talking about and really restrict your choice of boat, particularly if you want to get above the "camping" style of cruising as there are very few boats even of 30' that have bilge keel options. The most obvious are Westerly Konsort, Fulmar and particularly Discus plus Sadler 29, Mirage 28 and no doubt a few others I have forgotten.

You say you like the Folkboat style, in which case the obvious ones are the Halmatic/Barbican 30, Nic 31 (or even 32) Elizabethan 30, Wauquiez 32, Rustler 31 or even CO 32. You can get good examples of any of these well equipped within your budget. Fixed shelters really don't work on boats under, say 35' because of the windage and the difficulties of getting height under the roof. Better in smaller sizes to have a really good sprayhood with the option of a cockpit tent for use at anchor or in harbour. Downside if starting from scratch with a professionally made one will make a big hole in your budget, although most existing boat of this type are likely to have at least a sprayhood already.
 
Agree with Tranona’s list, might add Vancouver 27 or 28, but my choice would be Nicholson 31 or 32.

Spray hood and diesel stove is a bad combination if you want the stove lit under way as the hood creates a low pressure area in the cabin and you risk a down draft*.

Try to locate the flue in the slot (low pressure area) and not under the boom where it will get a downwash of air off the mainsail*.

At anchor or alongside (espescially if alongside a quay!) consider adding an extra length of flue above the deck.

* unless running. Ha ha ha.
 
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Kukri said:
Spray hood and diesel stove is a bad combination if you want the stove lit under way as the hood creates a low pressure area in the cabin and you risk a down draft*.
Click to expand...

The down draft issue can be overcome by installing a balanced air intake/flue.
diesel%20heater.jpg
 
Tranona said:
Fixed shelters really don't work on boats under, say 35' because of the windage and the difficulties of getting height under the roof.
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All due respect for you encyclopedic knowledge of yachts, but a hard shelter works just fine on boats uder 35', especially if they were designed for it in the first place.
I speak from 9000 miles experience we've had with our current boat, a heavily modified CW 32, in the North Sea, the Baltic, the Channel (with multiple crossings at the blunt end), the CI and now again, in Brittany.
Headroom is a full 6'4" throughout, including the wheelhouse. Yes there is windage, but it never has been a problem on passage or in the context of cruising. Whenever we had a chance to spar against other pure sailing boats they were a just a bit quicker to weather, but nothing terribly embarrassing either. To put a number to it, we were near enough 500m slower than a 35' fin keel sloop after a 10 mile windward leg in the Isselmeer (F4-5). The next day we beat them proper on a 10 mile reach/broad reach with a considerably greater margin (F5-6). Much of that has a lot more to do with keel configuration and the ketch rig than windage. From 60 degr. downwards we have nothing to be ashamed about. Because I made the modifications to the boat, I have been pretty careful about documenting the changes to her performance.
On the other hand, we were able to reach port into the teeth of a F8 and breaking seas in Sweden (Kaseberga) and under power, while the next boats with whom we had left the previous port together, came in two and a half hours after us, drenched and pretty frightened. We had pretty much stayed together under sail for most of the trip, but at the last headland they were not able to make way to weather to cover the last 4 miles under either sail or power. So much for windage.

On protective clothing: Other than for excursions ashore we have not worn proper foulies for the last ten years. I may have gotten a bit of spray in the face when I duck out of the wheelhouse for a second to fiddle with the sails, but on the other hand we do not spend hours sitting in the rain and spray.
 
Nom de plume said:
I highly recommend the videos produced by a Norwegian chap called 'Juho'. (YouTube)
As well as stunning photography, amazing skiing (via yacht) and serious adventures north (in winter too) - he also goes into great detail about boat preparation and fit out with one particular episode going into the relative advantages and disadvantages of various heating / cooking methods.
Enjoy!
www.alluringsailing.com
Click to expand...

Is Juno not Finish?
 
BabaYaga said:
The down draft issue can be overcome by installing a balanced air intake/flue.
diesel%20heater.jpg
Click to expand...
Perhaps the Reflex allows the direct and airtight connection to the combustion air intake and this may make a difference by creating a closed circuit. This was not possible to do on the Dickinson range that I had. I did bring in a fresh air supply from near where the flue exited to the back of the stove, unfortunately it was only moderately successful.
The boat did have have a large hard dodger/wheel shelter and I lengthened the flue pipe until we looked like an oil refinery and I tried every type of flue cap available. I lived on this boat for some 7 years total and the stove was on low a setting 24/7 as is common on this coast; it's not like I didn't try.
Strangely, when the wind was over the bow or the stern the stove rarely backdrafted, when the wind stood over the beam all bets were off. I could also keep the stove going while under power, but never under sail except when going downwind. The decks tended to collect more soot than a coal barge.
The Dickinsons are made here and have always been popular with the fishing fleet, alas the backdrafting problems are also legendary.
 
We've been to 80N, and done quite a bit of cold water, but in a much bigger boat so my advice needs filtering with your circumstances. But we have two modifications I recommend you at least look at:

1. Extra heating based on the engine. We have an Ebberspantser look-alike (Mikuni), but also a v. simple transit-van type heater based on the engine cooling water. It's amazing how often you'll be motoring for the last 30 mins of any passage so the heat is free and really welcome.
2. Anchoring or tieing alongside is not always with the wind from dead ahead. We have an extra zip-on section to our sprayhood which drops down to the cockpit to allow us to shelter with hatch open and some ventilation but protected from rain even if from astern.

We do not have the steering position (wheel or tiller makes no odds) protected except by the residue of the spray hood, preferring it to be free and with good look-out, but we do have an electric autopilot so often don't need to be exposed.
 
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Laminar Flow said:
Perhaps the Reflex allows the direct and airtight connection to the combustion air intake and this may make a difference by creating a closed circuit. This was not possible to do on the Dickinson range that I had.
Click to expand...
My stove is a Glembring, very similar to the Refleks. It has a dedicated intake for the combustion air, same diameter as the flue. I believe the same is true for the Reflex range, at least for some of the models.
 
Laminar Flow said:
All due respect for you encyclopedic knowledge of yachts, but a hard shelter works just fine on boats uder 35', especially if they were designed for it in the first place.
Click to expand...

The number of boats under 35' designed with a shelter is very limited as is the number actually built of each design. Sure you have motorsailors like your CW - but that is not what the OP is talking about, having started with a folkboat style and then moving up a bit in size. He asked if adding a solid shelter to such a boat was a good idea - hence my comment. Once you get around 35' it becomes more practical, although I have seen hard shelters on boats like Westerly Longbow, but they are out of proportion.

If he had asked about wheelhouse cruisers then again the list is very limited until you get into the mid 30's. Add to the mix his £30k overall budget and his choice of this type (if he did choose to go this way) is extremely limited.
 
Tranona said:
As often happens some of your boat. requirements are contradictory. As many others have said bilge keels really don't have any advantages for the type of sailing you are talking about and really restrict your choice of boat, particularly if you want to get above the "camping" style of cruising as there are very few boats even of 30' that have bilge keel options. The most obvious are Westerly Konsort, Fulmar and particularly Discus plus Sadler 29, Mirage 28 and no doubt a few others I have forgotten.

You say you like the Folkboat style, in which case the obvious ones are the Halmatic/Barbican 30, Nic 31 (or even 32) Elizabethan 30, Wauquiez 32, Rustler 31 or even CO 32. You can get good examples of any of these well equipped within your budget. Fixed shelters really don't work on boats under, say 35' because of the windage and the difficulties of getting height under the roof. Better in smaller sizes to have a really good sprayhood with the option of a cockpit tent for use at anchor or in harbour. Downside if starting from scratch with a professionally made one will make a big hole in your budget, although most existing boat of this type are likely to have at least a sprayhood already.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your suggestions. I appreciate the benefits of a long/fin keel boat and may well end up going with this configuration. Indeed these keel types would be my first choice and provide a much larger choice of boats… My thoughts of a bilge keel is really more about my home mooring options. I have access to a cheap shallow water mooring and would very much like to avoid the annual fees for a marina if possible! It’s an old conundrum I know !!
 
SkipperWild said:
Thanks for your suggestions. I appreciate the benefits of a long/fin keel boat and may well end up going with this configuration. Indeed these keel types would be my first choice and provide a much larger choice of boats… My thoughts of a bilge keel is really more about my home mooring options. I have access to a cheap shallow water mooring and would very much like to avoid the annual fees for a marina if possible! It’s an old conundrum I know !!
Click to expand...

There may be other options - deep water moorings are more expensive than drying ones, but much cheaper than marina berths. For several years I sailed a 37ft deep keel yacht from a mud berth; one did need to pay attention to tide times but we never missed getting into the berth at the end of a weekend.
 
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