He, she or it.

[25931]

Do you use conventional English ? When the language has a perfectly satisfactory way of expressing a neuter singular why do people need to say "their" ?

 

[macd]

Gender neutrality, I suppose, which isn't all about political correctness. How would you politely refer to a forumite of unknown gender (many are to you and I, if not to themselves). "They" and "their" are probably more cordial that "it" and "its". English does lack an appropriate pronoun.

It's perhaps employed also for similar reasons that people commonly use plural pronouns for singular entities (companies, sports teams, etc). Wrong as it is, even many publications now include this as preferred, or even mandated, style book usage.

 

[Fiddlesticks]

Back in the day it was the convention to address a letter to "Dear Sir" if writing to a company, even if the actual recipient / representative you were writing to was female.

 

[macd]

Back in the day it was the convention to address a letter to "Dear Sir" if writing to a company, even if the actual recipient / representative you were writing to was female.

Are you perhaps missing my point? I'm referring to people using "they" or "their" when talking of, say, the England cricket team. Strictly, it should be "it" or "its": singular, no gender (even a single-sex team).

 

[Graham376]

Common usage modifies language over a time and it's getting far worse as people are starting to speak as they text. Although my grammar and spelling are far from ideal, I actually complained to the BBC that some of their presenters are not good examples and I turn the radio off rather than have to listen to them. I have no end of problems with Portuguese gender, a glass is male but a glass of beer is female. A boat there is male.

 

[jordanbasset]

Never realised it was grammatically incorrect, for example when I say in relation to Wolverhampton Wanderers Football team, 'they are the best' it sounds right to me, whereas 'It is the best' does not

 

[macd]

Never realised it was grammatically incorrect, for example when I say in relation to Wolverhampton Wanderers Football team, 'they are the best' it sounds right to me, whereas 'It is the best' does not

I quite agree that it would be ludicrously fussy to insist on it, which is no doubt why the use has declined.
But you'd also describe them as a team or a club: singular. And a pretty good one in recent seasons

 

[Tony Cross]

Are you perhaps missing my point? I'm referring to people using "they" or "their" when talking of, say, the England cricket team. Strictly, it should be "it" or "its": singular, no gender (even a single-sex team).

Not at all, a team is a group of people; hence they or their.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I am the first to admin my grammar isn't up to scratch or come to that anywhere near, but I am lost why this posting come under liveaboard forum or are we just got nothing interesting to write about has liveaboard ?

Ok back to the box.

 

[macd]

I am the first to admin my grammar isn't up to scratch or come to that anywhere near, but I am lost why this posting come under liveaboard forum or are we just got nothing interesting to write about has liveaboard ?

Nostro has been known to navel-gaze, not that he's alone in that. One might even call him a navel inspector.

Not at all, a team is a group of people; hence they or their.

"a team is a group" is right. For such a bright chap, you seem strangely lost about the meaning of "a".

 

[elton]

Do you use conventional English ? When the language has a perfectly satisfactory way of expressing a neuter singular why do people need to say "their" ?

It annoys me intensely. Someone at the BBC makes these decisions, and remain unaccountable.

 

[newtothis]

It's not entirely cut and dried regarding groups of people, but it is along the lines described. When the entity exists in its own right, it is a a singular entity; if it is a group of individuals making up an entity, plural is used.
So:
The Army is fighting a war
The police are investigating a crime
The Metropolitan Police Force is investigating a crime
Wolverhampton are this year's FA Cup winners

 

[newtothis]

More relevantly, what do you call a boat? He, she or it?
And what if your boat is called "John"?

 

[Cariadco]

They're the best???
Then again, what do I know about English.....

This was supposed to be a bit of a tongue in cheek reply to Jordanbasset but I buggered it up, seems I know less about IT, than I do about English......

 

[scotty123]

Never realised it was grammatically incorrect, for example when I say in relation to Wolverhampton Wanderers Football team, 'they are the best' it sounds right to me, whereas 'It is the best' does not

As oft said, there is no I in team, so no it either.

 

[jordanbasset]

It's not entirely cut and dried regarding groups of people, but it is along the lines described. When the entity exists in its own right, it is a a singular entity; if it is a group of individuals making up an entity, plural is used.
So:
The Army is fighting a war
The police are investigating a crime
The Metropolitan Police Force is investigating a crime
Wolverhampton are this year's FA Cup winners

Unfortunately not

 

[25931]

Common usage modifies language over a time and it's getting far worse as people are starting to speak as they text. Although my grammar and spelling are far from ideal, I actually complained to the BBC that some of their presenters are not good examples and I turn the radio off rather than have to listen to them. I have no end of problems with Portuguese gender, a glass is male but a glass of beer is female. A boat there is male.

Um copo de cerveja is, in fact, masculine. I agree that English is more logical in relation to boat which like anything else that gives a man a lot of pleasure and is rather expensive should be feminine.

 

[Graham376]

Um copo de cerveja is, in fact, masculine. I agree that English is more logical in relation to boat which like anything else that gives a man a lot of pleasure and is rather expensive should be feminine.

Yes, I got it the wrong way around. If asking for a beer (in a bottle) it's female but if asking for a glass of beer it's masculine. OTOH, if you ask for an Imperial from the pump which obviously comes in a glass, it remains female. My wife gave up trying to teach me the rules many years ago.

 

[newtothis]

Unfortunately not

Yeah, sorry about that.

 

[Cariadco]

As oft said, there is no I in team, so no it either.

Although, there is a Me.......