Have you ever had a Danforth type anchor break out..?

[Twister_Ken]

Stand-by for a complete rubbishing of everything Swedish, from Abba to Ikea.

 

[DogWatch]

Adjustable Flukes

Brian, you mention that fortress anchors have adjustable flukes to allow you to adjust for soft mud.

Is there a problem having the flukes permanently set at the larger (smaller depends how you look at it) angle?

 

[Brian@Fortress]

Brian, you mention that fortress anchors have adjustable flukes to allow you to adjust for soft mud.

Is there a problem having the flukes permanently set at the larger (smaller depends how you look at it) angle?

DogWatch,

Yes, there is a big problem if you try and set the anchor at the 45° angle in harder soils than soft mud. The anchor will have difficulty penetrating the bottom.

So if you are in sand, clay, or harder mud, keep it at the 32° angle.

 

[Brian@Fortress]

Stand-by for a complete rubbishing of everything Swedish, from Abba to Ikea.

No way Twister_Ken! Hope you are kidding. How could anyone ever defame Abba, and their toe-tapping tunes ????

 

[DogWatch]

No way Twister_Ken! Hope you are kidding. How could anyone ever defame Abba, and their toe-tapping tunes ????

Ok I'll have a go.

Abba was like taking all the music up until 1972 and removing all the black, asian, islands influence and is an example of the worst type of commercial unfeeling music ever invented.

How's that?

 

[alahol2]

And Ikea's always overcrowded.

 

[Brian@Fortress]

Ok I'll have a go.

Abba was like taking all the music up until 1972 and removing all the black, asian, islands influence and is an example of the worst type of commercial unfeeling music ever invented. How's that?

Brilliant analysis. And you wouldn't mind too terribly if I threw Barry Manilow under that same bus, would you?

 

[DaveS]

It seems a bit boring now, but to return to the original question, yes I've had personal experience of a Danforth type anchor failing. It was many years ago in a Caprice, anchoring hastily in a final attempt to avoid being driven on to a lee shore in a gale. The anchor did not set properly, and when it was recovered both flukes were seen to be bent. The following 24 hours were "interesting".

 

[noelex]

I don't want to start a flame war either. After all, its almost Christmas. However, safety is at risk here, and that's more important.

Thanks Brian

The adjustable fluke design of the Fortress is a good and unique feature. The large fluke area for the weight is also an advantage in soft mud so I can understand the Fortress is good choice for this type of substrate.

I have not used the Rocna anchor in soft mud, so I have no practical experience.

From a theoretical point of view I would expect the much larger and concave fluke design of the Rocna (and Manson supreme) to give it a significant edge over all other anchors I can think of.

You have nominated the Fortress as the best anchor for soft mud. If a Fortrees was unavailable what would be your other nominations for anchors that perform well in this type of bottom?
You have labeled the Rocna as “doomed “ in this type of bottom. Do you believe say a CQR would be superior ?

 

[Brian@Fortress]

Thanks Brian

The adjustable fluke design of the Fortress is a good and unique feature. The large fluke area for the weight is also an advantage in soft mud so I can understand the Fortress is good choice for this type of substrate.

I have not used the Rocna anchor in soft mud, so I have no practical experience.

From a theoretical point of view I would expect the much larger and concave fluke design of the Rocna (and Manson supreme) to give it a significant edge over all other anchors I can think of.

You have nominated the Fortress as the best anchor for soft mud. If a Fortrees was unavailable what would be your other nominations for anchors that perform well in this type of bottom?
You have labeled the Rocna as “doomed “ in this type of bottom. Do you believe say a CQR would be superior ?

Noelex, you are welcome. I am glad that I could be of some help to you.

We exhibit at the US Sailboat Show in Annapolis, MD every year, in the heart of the Chesapeake Bay, and this show is an excellent opportunity to talk with boaters who are anchoring regularly in those difficult soft mud type of bottoms that I have described.

Based on their input, which I have to respect because it is "real world," my second choice for an anchor in soft mud would be a Danforth type, even though you cannot adjust the shank / fluke angle as you can with a Fortress.

I have heard regularly that "plow anchors just plow," and the Danforth types have a larger fluke surface area by comparison, and so they should be more effective.

But that recommendation has to come with a warning:

With any pivoting fluke type anchor, i.e. Fortress or Danforth, you should initially set the anchor at a shorter scope, i.e. 2:1 or 3:1 in soft mud. This will insure that the heavy weight of your chain will not sink the shank below the flukes, and the flukes will then be sticking up and not down and into the soft mud bottom.

This can happen if you use a longer scope to set the anchor, i.e. 5:1 in soft mud. We have included "Mud Palms" for the past 15 years with our anchors to eliminate this possibility, but just to be sure, shorten up your scope when initially setting in soft mud, and then once the anchor sets, let out enough rode for a 5:1 scope and then “power set” the anchor.

Check point no. 8 at the link below for an image of this:
http://www.fortressanchors.com/safe_anchoring.html

I have heard setting complaints from boaters at the show about fluke type anchors in soft mud, but after they try this simple technique, those issues usually go away.

Regarding Rocna vs. the CQR, I have test data from the San Francisco Bay soft mud bottom test that was conducted in the late 80’s in which the CQR was a participant. I can share that test data with you once I get back to office after the holidays. I do not have any soft mud test data on the Rocna, which I fully expect that they would be willing to provide.

Based on the concave design of the single fluke of the Rocna, Manson, Spade or similar, I would expect these anchors to be as good or possibly even better than the CQR, but until I see the numbers, then I can’t be certain. I like dealing in numbers and boater experience, and not theory.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

 

[Maine Sail]

Based on the concave design of the single fluke of the Rocna, Manson, Spade or similar, I would expect these anchors to be as good or possibly even better than the CQR, but until I see the numbers, then I can’t be certain. I like dealing in numbers and boater experience, and not theory.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

Brian,

I have lots of boater "experience" with many anchors in soft mud, had bottoms, gravel and eel grass. Maine has quite a variation of bottom types. I choose to use a Fortress as my dedicated stern anchor but it has failed to re-set on me far to many times to trust it while asleep. When an anchor fails me more than just a few times, I keep searching.

To that end I own and have owned Delta, Bruce, CQR's, Danforth's, Fortresses, Super Max, Manson Supreme, Spade aluminum and Spade steel and a Rocna and some others.

By quite a wide margin the Manson Supreme and the Rocna have been the best all around performers. I now have over 400 anchoring events between the Manson and the Rocna, in most all bottom types and have not yet had a drag, failed reset or a missed set on the first try (except for when I caught a lobster trap). I can't say that for any of my other anchors except the Manson Supreme and the Rocna. I know Craig hates the Manson but it is what it is, a damn good anchor.

I know the Fortress has tremendous holding power but it fails me when it needs to re-set reliably and I can't have this. Both my Rocna and Manson have sustained winds over 55 knots in soft mud and not budged an inch. Years ago we rode out 50 knos on my Fortress and she held great. After the storm the winds abated and over nigh changed direction and came up at 20 knots from the opposite way. Something did not seem right so I popped my head out of the companionway and we were 30 feet from a ledge and over 1/4 miles from where we rode out 50+ knots on the same anchor. I scrambled to fire up the motor and only scratched the bottom paint on my keel. That was the last time I used my Fortress as my primary anchor. If I had not woken up early to take some photos we would have had thousands of dollars in damages. I got darn lucky.

I really liked my old Bruce as it set & re-set very reliably but holding was a tad light and I really did not want to have to go one or two sizes larger to get what I wanted in holding.

Someone will improve on the Rocna/Manson concept but for now they are the most reliable anchors I have ever used.

I still own quite a few anchors and can choose to use any one of them as my primary as they are not for sale and owe me nothing. I will continue to use my Fortress as my dedicated stern anchor because it excels in this regard but it will never again be my everyday primary anchor.

Craig, as you know, is his own worst enemy so don't bait the animals please. He probably costs himself more sales than he gains. I have three very good friends who bought Manson's, instead of Rocna's, specifically because of Craig... Oh and all three also have Fortresses, but not as a primary.. I have personally written to Craig and asked him to play nice but he just can't seem to help himself. If nothing else he is passionate about his product..

My quiver:

 

[DogWatch]

With any pivoting fluke type anchor, i.e. Fortress or Danforth, you should initially set the anchor at a shorter scope, i.e. 2:1 or 3:1 in soft mud. This will insure that the heavy weight of your chain will not sink the shank below the flukes, and the flukes will then be sticking up and not down and into the soft mud bottom.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

That's quite interesting, in a similar vain I was thinking about something yesterday after reading a comment earlier on by someone and then after you mentioning the adjustable flukes... Has anyone tried adding weight to the points of a danforth type or fortress. All the new gen anchors use tip weight, has anyone considered revisiting older anchors to see if this might add improvement?

 

[30boat]

That's quite interesting, in a similar vain I was thinking about something yesterday after reading a comment earlier on by someone and then after you mentioning the adjustable flukes... Has anyone tried adding weight to the points of a danforth type or fortress. All the new gen anchors use tip weight, has anyone considered revisiting older anchors to see if this might add improvement?

The Rocna,Manson and Bugel don't have weighed tips, only the Spade has to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Ubergeekian]

With any pivoting fluke type anchor, i.e. Fortress or Danforth, you should initially set the anchor at a shorter scope, i.e. 2:1 or 3:1 in soft mud. ... once the anchor sets, let out enough rode for a 5:1 scope and then “power set” the anchor.

Could that be related to the comments made by some about resetting issues? When the tide turns that 5:1 is going to be out there already unless you actively do something about it ...

 

[RobHom]

I don't use a standard Danforth....but rather a "Fortress" danforth style anchor:
http://www.fortressanchors.com/fortress_anchors.html I can honestly say that this anchor has never "dragged"...I have set it in sand, hand bottom and even hard clay... But then the Fortress anchors are engineered differently than standard danforths.

My other anchors are CQR's...and they are quite good...but I still tend to favor my Fortress....

 

[Brian@Fortress]

Gents,

Good input by all. Some follow-up thoughts:

Maine Sail - Impressive arsenal of anchors! Sorry to hear about issue with Fortress. Hard to understand how it came loose after holding in high winds, it should have been well buried and not come loose during a wind shift.

Regarding Craig Smith of Rocna, I understand being passionate about a product, but being disrespectful of other anchor manufacturers and their customers is intolerable and unacceptable.

Dog Watch - We machine down the tips and front edges of the flukes to be pretty sharp. That is supposed to be our "dirty little secret." Kind of like a razor cutting into a surface vs. a dull knife. These sharpened edges should result in faster setting and deeper burying.

Ubergeekian - 5:1 scope should be a minimum, and you are right, a high tide can change that quickly. It is something to be aware of. The higher the scope = more horizontal pull on the anchor = greater holding power.

Also, "power setting" your anchor is often overlooked. It is always good to back down hard until the water boils to insure that the anchor is on its way to China, so to speak.

If the anchor pops loose during "power setting", then good, better then than during the middle of the night when a thunderstorm comes crashing through in pitch darkness with 50 knot winds.

I suspect that most problems with anchors coming loose are due to the scopes being too short and not power-setting the anchors.

RobHom - Thanks for the kind words. Can I put you on our payroll?

Guys, have a great holiday. Your comments are always appreciated.

Take care,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

 

[Mariner69]

What amazes me about these posts is, irrespective of the anchor employed, the complete failure to set an anchor watch either by a person or using a GPS system.

All equipment can and will fail at the worst possible time (Murphy's Law) what we call 'seamanship' came about to limit the consequences of these failures.

 

[Quandary]

F****n anchors

I used to find Craigs evangelistic zeal a bit irritating, but everything is relative and after reading all the exaggerations and rubbishing of competitors on this thread I now realize it is the norm for the industry. In fact I am now beginning to like Craig, he seems a lot more open minded and believable than some of the guys he competes with. Not buying a Rocna yet though, but I have already got a Manson Supreme, a Delta and a lovely big Bruce.

 

[DogWatch]

Too much time on my hands

Been thinking about Vyv's problem and it seems a problem people have encountered when the boat turns at anchor. It appears that the rode is getting caught on the flukes before the anchor breaks and prevents a seamless reset of the anchor.

So I have had a mess around and wonder if this might be a possible solution. You could however frame in the whole fluke area with a tube hinge on the top bar.

Just a thought, I am sure someone will see what I haven't and suggest why it may not work as planned.

 

[DogWatch]

Another thought to keep rode from flukes

Another thought to keep rode from flukes