Hardtop boats! Whats the Point???

[holderone]

I have a flyer 12 and have to say that over all a hard top has real benefits over canvas in the UK, particularly when using the boat in the winter. My last boat was a chranchi 34 and whilst we had some great times on her the family more often than not froze to death making it hard work on long cruises. I also hated having to put the canvas on oan off if there was a hint of rain. The only downside is the poor design of the roof area, you really need a boat that can fully open in good weather, the flyer is poor for this. You find that in hot weather you don't get the air rushing past you which was always great on a sports boat.

I think as the designs get better the hard top offers much more flexibilility in the UK especially if the crew get cold easily.

 

[Frontier]

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I guess hardtops are for the lazy amongst us who can't be bothered taking the canvas down?

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yep that's me. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I am fed up with the canvas, I mostly have the top on and sides on, as the weather is too cold. And I wouldn't want a Flybridge at my size. (32")

Think I would like a HT next time, Prestige 36 or an Élan would be nice. Although "next time" could be a long way off. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

As for flybridge, I would be concerned about the weathering all the gear gets up there. And if you have to cover it in canvas that must be just as bad as dealing with the canvas on a sports top.

 

[Kawasaki]

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This is me on a nice day......

.......and on a cold day

Given the weather here in the UK I think a hard top would be my 1st choice.

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Bleedin H!
I hate ter seeyer on a Bad Day /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[hlb]

Total crap. My fly gets the cover taken off at the begining of hols, and put back on at the end, three weeks later. Has done for ten years, or maybe twenty. Yep, it's had new seat covers, but then, so has everything else.

Manys the time, we've got totally pissed through, on the fly. Then moved down stairs and shut the door. Lovely and warm, nice soft furnishings and none of yer plastic stuff.

Also able to place the boat, within a couple of inches, with perfect visability.

 

[Whitelighter]

I'm not saying you , or anyone else is wrong. I just prefer an open SC. The times I have been in smaller fly's downstairs I felt sick becoause the weather was not good (or we would have been upstairs).

The only time I enjoyed driving downstairs was recently on a Squaddy 59 - but then who wouldn't and is a much bigger and therefor more stable boat.

And, i know of at least one who has gone from a small fly back to sports cruiser as he wants to 'boat' rather than just go somewhere by water /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I agree with DV that the convertible soft top option developed by Sealine makes the most sense, it is just a shame that the tops aren't a little more - er - graceful.

 

[ABB]

Having a flybridge and not having canopies, was one of of 5 must have criteria.

I ended up buying a Merry Fisher 925.

Have read some reference to flybridges on this size boat being inappropriate ... anyone know why?

 

[Nautical]

For me quite a few reasons really.

One, the centre of gravity is lower for a start so handling tends to be a bit more neutral and balanced rather than a couple of tons of grp and gubbins swinging about on top which means certainly with IPS you can crank up the steering response without fear of it getting all a bit 'tippy feeling'. Second on boats over 45 foot they (if designed right) look far more sexy and sleek which surely what some of the appeal of a sports cruiser is all about, you get much more variable designs with a hard top than say a mid 40' flybridge which all tend to be very samey.

For the same given power they tend to be a bit better on the performance stakes without the extra weight of the flybridge and drag so bit better fuel burn. Many flybridges tend to run quite bow up I imagine from the extra weight aft of the CG and some have a very narrow angle of vision from the lower steering position when up on the plane. Some a swine to berth stern to from lower helm so in the peeing rain coming into port you have up top to see properly even in really heavy weather some you have to drive up top cus the view out from below at low cruise speed is crap. The best of the bunch of HT sports cruisers have brilliant all round vision (some are poo though).

HT's you get a bit of wind in the hair when you want it but at the push of a button you can be all snug and protected from the elements.

Some people rave about the ability of being able to have the wind in the hair thing up top on a flybridge so sort of extra free deck for little extra but when they say wind in the hair they really mean it the screens are no more than token things on some and it gets really tiring been blown to bits at speed for any length of time other down side is that in rolly polly conditions if you are a bit prone to sea sickness it does rock and roll alot up there. Personally on the smaller flybridges I feel very exposed up top especially if going slower and she is rolling alot and you have to move about. I remember taking an Antares 12 out in quite a blow and up top you felt very nervous moving about as the rails are rediculously low around shin height , trip and you are over the side.

Anyway I could ramble on and bore the bejesus out of everyone but guess it down to taste but for me HT everytime spesh in the UK.

 

[Whitelighter]

So will we see HT 39 and 41 abby's in the near future Trev?

 

[hlb]

 

[Nautical]

Oh I couldn't possibly comment on that /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif but three new models appearing in 2008 season plus the new 70 quad at Cannes in Sept and the preview of the 85 (powered by something a bit trick), just have to figure out how the hell I get an 85 onto our 14m berth in La Napoule..... someone has to give Maggers a run for his money /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Renegade_Master]

Hi Trev have to disagreed with some of your points see below:

"Many flybridges tend to run quite bow up I imagine from the extra weight aft of the CG" ..............................

what extra weight aft? my fly has the engines midships thus providing balance unlike a lot of SC's with engines aft /stern drives which does not aid balance.

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"and some have a very narrow angle of vision from the lower steering position when up on the plane."


? not found this yet but do notice a lot of SC helmsman have to stand to see over the screen on account of the bow up angle. I guess thats why the manufacturers put that bolster thing there cos they know the visions gonna be crap.

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"Some a swine to berth stern to from lower helm so in the peeing rain coming into port you have up top to see properly"


Agreed the view out from below is not always good on a fly for mooring, and the best place to be for mooring is up top. However I have been on a passage together with an SC when it has started to rain plus lumpy head seas, he cant be bothered to stop and wallow about whilst he balances precauriously on a narrow side deck with bugger all to grab whilst trying to pop the canopy to the screen. So we carry on. By now of course we have gone below in the dry warm cabin to helm inside.

So when we arrive back hes both wet from the rain as well as the seawater hitting him in the face as we are after all going into 600mm head seas. I pop up to the fly once inside Marina with me mack on, and berth all of 2 minutes in the rain. Oh and my crew are snug under the fly overhang till the point they have to tie up, unlike the SC crew who are all soaking wet anyway.

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"even in really heavy weather some you have to drive up top cus the view out from below at low cruise speed is crap".


Never had a problem helming inside in big seas, vision fine with wipers on everyone warm and dry, listening to the stereo. When we were crossing from Mallorca to Ibiza in head seas W5-6 on my 36ft fly I now where I would rather have been with the amount of green water landing on the boat and thats inside a flybridge not under some flimsy canopy.

 

[goochie]

Interesting comments, and I agree with much of what you say, but it is of course down to personal choice. We did quite a bit of research before we bought our boat (a small flybridge) but it has been brilliant for us. Yes, the boat can be a bit 'tippy' up top (spesh when a big squaddie goes by a bit quickly), but that's part of the fun in the same way a SC gets a bit wet. On the flybridge you do get the open boat feeling, without getting wet very often. As HLB says, it's great to have the option of shutting the doors if you want, particularly on a long cruise. Also, visibility was great for a novice to see what he was doing when getting used to mooring. If it's peeing down with rain the crew of any boat have to get wet anyway, else who's going to tie you up? It's easy to stay inside until the last minute and then pop up top, although it's not so hard from inside. BTW Nautical, what were your opinions on the flyer 12 generally - I quite fancy one.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Here we go again! IMHO a hardtop is a practical alternative to a canvas top on smaller sports cruisers but on larger ones, say 40ft+, there's no point in having a hardtop without a flybridge on top. And it seems that the manufacturers are now starting to agree. Both Princess and Riva now offer as an option, erm, a flybridge on 2 of their hardtop sports cruisers only, of course, they're tiny so you might as well buy a proper flybridge model

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Beat me to it, Clive! Basically there is no practical argument for a hardtop cruiser over a flybridge cruiser above a certain length, say 30-35ft.
Of course, the main market for large hardtop sports cruisers is bald fat menopausal men who think that owning one will somehow make them appear attractive to the opposite sex (or the same sex for a few). Of course, if the boat is big enough, it might just work /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[AdeOlly]

Well we moved from a 25' S24 to our 31' Seawings HT... and we love it. Big benefits are reduced canvas and all the hassle with them, and on our boat wind free cruising if seated, even with the roof open, and wind in the hair cruising if I stand - best of both worlds; magic.

I certainly won't go back to an open sports boat, but I'd also have reservations about an HT where you can't actually have the wind in your hair.

 

[KCook]

Heavens! What does "practical argument" have to do with anything? These are yachts, not work boats. And yachts are lust objects. My upper threshold for a desirable hardtop would be a lot closer to 75' than 35'.

postmenopausal Kelly

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, the main market for large hardtop sports cruisers is bald fat menopausal men

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh-oh, I'm in trouble... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Alistairr]

What have you ordered then Jimmy?
a J42???

Cheers

Al.

 

[Alistairr]

SOLD!!

You are a great salesman Trev, SWMBO has read the thread and says she'd now want a Sexy HT than a 'Tippy' Flybridge!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Personally i'd be happy with any of them, I stand buy what i said though! I would prefer a Sportscruiser to a Flybridge, but a HT is possibly more practical in our rainy climate and for a lot of people. So SWMBO tells me! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I also agree that some HT boats are far sexier than their opentop cousins.

Reading the different replies i can see its each to their own, and we all have different tastes, and for us, who knows what our next boat will be!

All the best, and have a happy new year all.

Cheers

Al.

 

[Nautical]

Fair comment, but I was referring more about Hard Tops than Canvas doofers but then again in general canvas tops are cheaper per foot than FB so you get more boat per pound and generally are more 'sporty' in the handling stakes.

Foot for foot I haven't found a FB around mid 40' that can out handle a 45' sports cruiser on drives or IPS and dispite any arguments FB V's SC if you want performance and handling SC os the only way to go.

I can see argument for FB if you do lots of long distance cruising and livaboard but certainly for med use for weekends and days out if you still have a bit of 'ummmph' left in you and want some fun thrown in a open SC is the dog's doofers.