jrudge
Well-Known Member
How could you abuse a gyro ?
Gyro stabilizers
- Thread starter curiouskb
- Start date
How could you abuse a gyro ?
jimmy_the_builder
Well-Known Member
Tell it it looks like a fin?
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
My giro's were heavily abused, mainly Harvey's Best ��
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Made me smile ?
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Anybody got any replacement costs and ave life of fin bush /seals .
Nice to know for an objective view .
Saw some curved fins retrofitted into a Riva ego 68 ( 38 knot boat ) at the local shipyard recently - assume the owner / yard. -looked at both ?
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stillwaters
Well-Known Member
Just had firm(ish) quotes for retro fitting both Seakeeper 5 or Sleipner SPS55.
Whilst the gyro quote is now £50k +vat, installing the fins has been quoted at £84k (£70k +vat) . This breaks down to £39k for the kit, £5-6k for other materials, and £25k for labour. Apparently the labour equates to around 500 hours (therefore @ presumably £50/hour). Ok, I know some stuff will have to be unhooked to gain access and mufflers will have to be cut down - but 500 hours, that would be 2 people non-stop for over 6 weeks??? I'm obviously in the wrong business Incidentally, the quote is from a well-known south coast supplier, so maybe the Scots are more competitive?. A pity, but as the choice was either a set of mods to our existing boat or a total replacement with the mods we wanted already fitted, I've told the crew to start practicing their rowing skills in readiness .
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I can guess who that was as they gave me a similarly stratospheric price for fitting a SK9 in my boat recently which I politely turned down. I think what happens is that they are constrained by the fact that Seakeeper publish selling prices on their website (not sure about Sleipner) so there is no opportunity to increase their margin over and above the normal dealer margin through selling the unit alone so they try to pad out their margin by bumping up the installation costs
FWIW I also looked into fitting a SK9 last winter when my boat was in Sardinia and the yard there (who aren't cheap) gave me a total fitting cost of €9,000 and they weren't even selling me the SK9 as I was buying it direct from Seakeeper. I thought that was fair and reasonable for the work involved and I wish I'd gone ahead at that time especially now that Sterling is worthless
stillwaters
Well-Known Member
I know what you mean. Tell you what though, as a one off favour, just send me all that you have and I'll give you 10p for every worthless pound I receive. Can't say fairer than that!
Incidentally, although I've little doubt that the installation of the Seakeeper in my instance wouldn't be cheap, the more eye-watering figures are undoubtedly for the Sleipners. Btw, hindsight's a great thing, isn't it? I'm actually thinking of bottling it and selling it to the sort of people who've got more money than sense - guess who?
BartW
Well-Known Member
from your post above, I understand that the 6K+25K labour is for fitting the fins, (not for the gyro) ! ?
having done a stab fin installation myself (electric CMC fins) on our boat, I can confirm that 6 weeks installation time is not far off,
we needed approx 6 weeks, and on average 2 ppl working permanently ! much depends on the acces to the available space...
I'm even surprised with that quote and wonder if hull reinforcing GRP work is included (I think they can't fit fins without that)
also, installing hydraulic fins is slightly more , or more difficult work than installing electric fins (afaik)
for a retrofit, I can highly recommand these electric fins, very happy customer after 4 seasosn of intensive useage,
but I think that CMC isn't aiming at boats smaller than 70ft, so their offer probably wouldn't be attractive.
My installation was slightly above the cost figures quoted above, that was for 70ft 50ton boat.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Well I have to say that is a fantastic offer but yesterday somebody else offered me 5p for every worthless pound I have and I said yes. No flies on me
I have half an idea!
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
Our ABT Trac fins were serviced in 2015 at Hamble Point. Cost was almost exactly £2,000 including all parts and VAT. Service interval is 2 years.
There are some eye-wateringly expensive parts on the fins too. We thought we were going to have to buy a new servo controller, thing the size of a matchbox, it would have cost £5,000 including fitting. Luckily Golden Arrow managed to tweak the settings to keep it going but friends of ours who have an N47 did have to buy that part in 2016. A new control screen, a little liquid crystal display that you would think is worth £50 costs £1,500 + VAT. I don't know what the rams cost but they do go sometimes.
Stabilisation is not a cheap hobby.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Our ABT Trac fins were serviced in 2015 at Hamble Point. Cost was almost exactly £2,000 including all parts and VAT. Service interval is 2 years.
There are some eye-wateringly expensive parts on the fins too. We thought we were going to have to buy a new servo controller, thing the size of a matchbox, it would have cost £5,000 including fitting. Luckily Golden Arrow managed to tweak the settings to keep it going but friends of ours who have an N47 did have to buy that part in 2016. A new control screen, a little liquid crystal display that you would think is worth £50 costs £1,500 + VAT. I don't know what the rams cost but they do go sometimes.
Stabilisation is not a cheap hobby.
Thx for that -some balance .
It looks like new bush,s and shaft on the 2nd pic , if so that's not too bad £2K every two years , in the general scheeme of things .
I did figure out there's a hole under water (actually 2x ) and a moving part which exerts uneven intermittent lateral forces .
So sumits gonna give ---- one day !
BartW
Well-Known Member
No it isn't
but none of the boating people I know, who are used to a stabilised boat, ever want to go back to a unstabilised mobo,
so with a little bit of man math, its money well spend ;-)
MapisM
Well-Known Member
We are still far from balance, I reckon.
My Naiad fins were installed in 1995 when the boat was built, and since then all I did was ONE oil and filter replacement.
Actually, I suspect that the Naiad engineer I called to have them checked (just in case, not because there was anything wrong) a few years after I bought the boat, i.e. in 2004, replaced them more to justify his bill which included the trip from Genoa to near Trieste, than anything else... About 3k Eur all in.
Since then, all the attention that was given to them was a powerwash to the fins when the boat is lifted - nothing else!
In fact, TwoHooter made me curious: may I ask what exactly is required by your ABTs every 2 years?
PS: btw, it's funny to see the "maintenance strakes", as I think Nordhavn call them, in your first pic.
They look like some sort of afterthought buoyancy appendix - you'd never guess the rationale behind them without knowing it...!
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Portofino
Well-Known Member
But won,t a hawk eyed buyers surveyor or indeed broker ask for evidence of service history ,
You know fire extinguisher service etc .( as well as obvious engine annual )
I would
You are open to serious haircut on price otherwise ,if the buyer has not walked away ,taking lack of SH as indicative (rightly or wrongly ) as a poor maintained old boat .
Just because your boats floating does not make fins fit and forget .
What's Naiad,s recommended service schedule ?
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
No, not new shafts, they were the originals, ten years old at the time. I knew absolutely nothing about what should be done so I just asked for them to do what they thought necessary. The major item was to fit new shaft seal kits. But it's a big job, taking the fins off, changing the fluids, cleaning everything up, painting the back of the fins, etc. and at Hamble Point prices it soon adds up.
The whole displacement trawler lifestyle thing only really became practical for the average boater when stabilisers came in. Before that people used paravanes. We looked at an N46 and rejected it partly because of the paravane stabilisation. I do not see stabs as optional extras on this sort of boat.
Oh dear
I don't know. I think I read somewhere that it's a 2-year interval. I must get the book out and see what it says.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Good question.
I don't have any service manual, but the guy who had them serviced back in 2004 (the chief engineer of the official IT importer) told me that they had a few commercial vessels where the engines had to be rebuilt before the stabs needed anything.
So, I'm doing my best to maintain my engines in good shape...
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Nah, don't take it as a must, 'twas just out of curiosity...
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Exactly -that's the killer Q any buyer will ask ,then ask agian for evidence .
Next killer Q for MapishM is the same as above ,but by your hawk eyed underwriters before a payout .
Referring you to a paragraph " keep in a seaworthy condition ,maintained to normal practice " or words to that effect .
Phishing for a cop out re -seals not being serviced as reccomended by manufacturer .
I can see some sleepless nights fighting them
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Sorry for going for the jugular --- fins Vs gyros now looks a bit different .
But they look waaaaaay more hassle than even VP outdrives and IPS !! Keeping water and oil apart !
Seals as per TwoHooter every 2-3 Y it seems ---- and as a used boat prospect 30 seconds of google this pops up
http://highseashydraulics.com/category/naiad/
But they look waaaaaay more hassle than even VP outdrives and IPS !! Keeping water and oil apart !
Seals as per TwoHooter every 2-3 Y it seems ---- and as a used boat prospect 30 seconds of google this pops up
http://highseashydraulics.com/category/naiad/
