Gyro stabilizers

[curiouskb]

I am thinking of fitting a gyro stabilizer to my Princess P43, Seakeeper is the well known brand but I read about the Italian MC2 Gyro which is cheaper. Anyone knows about this brand, or anything about fitting a gyro ? Advice appreciated. Thanks.

 

[MAFWeiss]

No idea about the Italian make, but loving my Seakeeper 9. Life changing experience of being moored at anchoring in a swell.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'm bumping this thread because I thought there would be an interesting discussion regarding MC2 v Seakeeper gyros but it hasn't happened. C'mon guys!

 

[Whitelighter]

To the OP, what is the price difference?

 

[wellf100]

I remember reading a small piece about them in mby ages ago. Here's their website:
http://www.itemmare.it/index-eng.html

 

[MapisM]

I'm bumping this thread because I thought there would be an interesting discussion regarding MC2 v Seakeeper gyros but it hasn't happened. C'mon guys!

LOL, sounds like you expected some IT member to contribute, M...
But aside from being late 'cause I don't have much time for the forum these days, I'm afraid there isn't much I can tell you about the MC2.
If we should judge the product quality by its popularity vs. the Seakeeper, I guess we could jump in the conclusion that they are nothing special.
Otoh, the only person I came across so far who knew them is a yard engineer (in La Spezia, btw) which, while discussing gyro, mentioned them as worth checking out.
According to him, they were mostly installed in specialized vessels (commercial and military), because they are more designed for reliability than performance: no vacuum, very simple cooling requirements (if any at all), lower rpm, faster spool-up - the drawback being a lower efficiency vs. the SK, which implies the need of a larger/heavier model, AOTBE.
But that's all hearsay, anyway - though based also on some other topics we discussed, that chap gave me the impression to know what he was talking about, FWIW.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

LOL, sounds like you expected some IT member to contribute, M...

Actually I was hoping that our resident forum stabiliser gurus might start a MC2 v Seakeeper technical discussion which would have proven interesting, at least for me! But thanks for the input anyway

 

[admillington]

Actually I was hoping that our resident forum stabiliser gurus might start a MC2 v Seakeeper technical discussion which would have proven interesting, at least for me! But thanks for the input anyway

Latest news:-
Quick SpA announces the acquisition of the business branch of the Italian company Item Mare, which manufactures MC2 anti-roll gyro stabilizers. This new product line will immediately become part of Quick Nautical Equipment’s portfolio, along with the existing lines of windlasses, thrusters, water heaters, battery chargers, and inverters. Manufacture of the MC2 gyros will be transferred to the Quick plant in Ravenna, Italy in January 2017 with the first production scheduled to ship in March 2017. Quick’s manufacturing plant was recently expanded by 7,200 sqm. to a total of 19,200 sqm. Quick SpA designs, manufactures, and distributes globally the Quick Nautical Equipment line, the marine water heater brand Sigmar Marine, and the LED lighting lines Quick Marine Lighting and Quicklighting.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Latest news:-
Quick SpA announces the acquisition of the business branch of the Italian company Item Mare, which manufactures MC2 anti-roll gyro stabilizers. This new product line will immediately become part of Quick Nautical Equipment’s portfolio, along with the existing lines of windlasses, thrusters, water heaters, battery chargers, and inverters. Manufacture of the MC2 gyros will be transferred to the Quick plant in Ravenna, Italy in January 2017 with the first production scheduled to ship in March 2017. Quick’s manufacturing plant was recently expanded by 7,200 sqm. to a total of 19,200 sqm. Quick SpA designs, manufactures, and distributes globally the Quick Nautical Equipment line, the marine water heater brand Sigmar Marine, and the LED lighting lines Quick Marine Lighting and Quicklighting.

Thanks for that. V interesting

 

[MapisM]

Thanks for that. V interesting

+1, I wasn't aware of that.

Btw, I dealt with Quick technical support directly in the past, because the receiver of my passerelle remote, which is built by them, needed some reprogramming - and FWIW, they have been prompt and efficient.
I just had a quick ('scuse the pun...) look at their website, and it confirms exactly what admillington said.
There's also a link to the MC2 brochure, which has already been labelled "Quick SpA", getting rid of "Item Mare" completely - understandably, since the brand image of the previous company was negligible.
Their models that in terms of anti-rolling torque force seem to compete with the SK5 and SK9 are the 20 and the 40 respectively (the first being a tad less powerful than the SK5, and the latter a tad more than the SK9).
No indications of prices, though.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

+1, I wasn't aware of that.

Btw, I dealt with Quick technical support directly in the past, because the receiver of my passerelle remote, which is built by them, needed some reprogramming - and FWIW, they have been prompt and efficient.
I just had a quick ('scuse the pun...) look at their website, and it confirms exactly what admillington said.
There's also a link to the MC2 brochure, which has already been labelled "Quick SpA", getting rid of "Item Mare" completely - understandably, since the brand image of the previous company was negligible.
Their models that in terms of anti-rolling torque force seem to compete with the SK5 and SK9 are the 20 and the 40 respectively (the first being a tad less powerful than the SK5, and the latter a tad more than the SK9).
No indications of prices, though.

I am trying to understand how the MC2 gyro works. Looking at the photo it seems that the flywheel rotates on a horizontal axis rather than vertical axis like the Seakeeper or Mitsubishi ARG. If so presumably the gyro casing has to rotate in the horizontal plane to precess? Or isn't the gyro casing allowed to precess at all?

 

[jfm]

Mike, not sure what info you are looking at but for the thing to work as an antiroll device the spin axis must be vertical (at rest) and it must precess around an athrwartships axis. I mean must. If the rotor spins on a horizontal axis the gyro will induce yaw not roll

 

[MapisM]

I've never seen the thing in flesh, and neither any technical documentation, so I can't answer Mike question.
But it's actually a good one J, because aside from the fact that it looks "washing machine like" in their drawings, the brochure shows also the following pic of a quadruple installation between engines.
Hard to think that the spin axis ain't horizontal, judging by the exterior...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I've never seen the thing in flesh, and neither any technical documentation, so I can't answer Mike question.
But it's actually a good one J, because aside from the fact that it looks "washing machine like" in their drawings, the brochure shows also the following pic of a quadruple installation between engines.
Hard to think that the spin axis ain't horizontal, judging by the exterior...

Thats a worrying number of gyros in what looks like a moderately sized boat (judging by the engines) which sort of suggests they don't work that well

 

[jfm]

Hmm yep. I need to eat my words above I think, sorry.
The three finger trick is hard to remember but IF those gyros are spinning on a horizontal athwartships axis, and IF the gimballing allows them to precess around a vertical axis, then they will produce an antiroll torque. I say "if" - I cannot see how those things in your picture precess around a vertical axis, but perhaps they do and there seems to be a sort of circular base visible on the bottom one.

BTW, if this is STB, I vote Squadron 58

So back to mike's question: they gyros can spin on athwarsthips axis provided the gimballing set up allows precession around a vertical axis

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

So back to mike's question: they gyros can spin on athwarsthips axis provided the gimballing set up allows precession around a vertical axis

Yup thats what I thought. The housing seems to be mounted on a bearing which looks like it should rotate ie precess but then the question is how is that controlled. Looking again at the brochure http://www.quicknauticalequipment.com/resources/downloads_qne-oth/DepMC2_Rev01.pdf the pic on page 2 shows a rack in the bottom left hand corner which I'm guessing might be part of some mechanical control mechanism. All in all, the MC2 looks a bit Heath Robinson to me! On the other hand, Quick are a well established company and they must be convinced there is a future in this product otherwise they wouldn't have bought the technology. Its got to be good for the boating consumer though to have another entrant in the market hopefully to force prices downwards

 

[MapisM]

Thats a worrying number of gyros in what looks like a moderately sized boat (judging by the engines) which sort of suggests they don't work that well

Well, it takes 4 of their smaller model (MC2 5) to get near a single SK5 (which might be just enough for a Sq58, if that's the boat - and if jfm says so, chances are that she is! ).
Maybe they just choose a higher modularity for space reasons in this specific installation, 'dunno...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well, it takes 4 of their smaller model (MC2 5) to get near a single SK5 (which might be just enough for a Sq58, if that's the boat - and if jfm says so, chances are that she is! ).
Maybe they just choose a higher modularity for space reasons in this specific installation, 'dunno...

Yes probably you're right but I can't help thinking that the cost of buying and fitting 4 small gyros has got to be a lot more than 1 big one and I also wonder how noisy all those units are at anchor

 

[jrudge]

Yes probably you're right but I can't help thinking that the cost of buying and fitting 4 small gyros has got to be a lot more than 1 big one and I also wonder how noisy all those units are at anchor

Maybe not. The big gyro is heavy and will need to engineered I guess to deal with substantial force.

4 small ones might ( only might) be simpler to engineer, but more importantly simpler to install.

The install cost of a seakeeper is about 50% of the price of the unit. This is mostly the cradle, and destroying half the boat to get the thing in (retrofit). So if you can install 4 small units as in this setup this could be relatively quick to to and given the force of each one is lower also require less engineering to support them.

Seakeeper also requires seawater cooling etc.

There may also be the option at rest on a decent day to turn off 2-3 gyros.

All speculation but I can see some benefits in several smaller units as opposed to one big one spending on price etc.

 

[Bouba]

Maybe not. The big gyro is heavy and will need to engineered I guess to deal with substantial force.

4 small ones might ( only might) be simpler to engineer, but more importantly simpler to install.

The install cost of a seakeeper is about 50% of the price of the unit. This is mostly the cradle, and destroying half the boat to get the thing in (retrofit). So if you can install 4 small units as in this setup this could be relatively quick to to and given the force of each one is lower also require less engineering to support them.

Seakeeper also requires seawater cooling etc.

There may also be the option at rest on a decent day to turn off 2-3 gyros.

All speculation but I can see some benefits in several smaller units as opposed to one big one spending on price etc.

The obvious thing is you can keep adding them until you get the desired effect. What is also interesting in their video on their website is its installed on a very little boat much smaller than could handle a seakeeper