gusty winds - PANIC!!!

[chrisbitz]

I went out at the weekend, and the weather was a little gusty at times, and the boat leaned over at what felt like about 45 degrees, and it makes my heart stop! When I feel all that incredible power going through the boat, it terrifies me, and I let out the mainsheet, and the drama subsides.. But it all seems to happen so quickly!

My boat is an 18ft Micro Challenger, but my ambition is a Westerly Centaur. Does this happen in big boats as fast/suddenly, or is it slightly slower and more graceful?

I understand that keel boats rarely get blown over, and my fear is probably unfounded..

when it gusts occasionally like that, should I have reefed, or is it normal and you ride out the occasional gust and man-up?

 

[pcatterall]

If its gusty and you are nervous then start your sailing under canvased. Your confidence needs to be built up so start off with less sail than you need. You will be able to take the corrective action quickly but not in panic mode. Build up your confidence and you will soon enjoy rather than fear!!

 

[nathanlee]

My boat is an 18ft Micro Challenger, but my ambition is a Westerly Centaur. Does this happen in big boats as fast/suddenly, or is it slightly slower and more graceful?

I understand that keel boats rarely get blown over, and my fear is probably unfounded..

Man up

I've had my (21ft) corribee right over. Nearly had the spreaders in the water. Not pleasant, but she came back up ok. Trust your boat, and reef early for a more enjoyable sail. Don't reef for adrenalin.

Took my Nic32 out around preston dock when it was a bit gusty, and the difference is immense. A gust that would really heel the corribee, just put a couple of degrees on the nic and she pushed off forwards. Bigger boats definitely heel less, but tend to create more of a mess down below when they do.

 

[oldharry]

A small dinghy like boat like this will tend to feel 'tippy' in gusty conditions, but with the externally mounted centre plate there should be little risk of capsize from strong wind. First of all, the sensation of heeling in a sailing boat very commonly causes feelings of panic particularly to inexperienced sailors used to dinghys that will go over. When I first started it used to scare the living daylights out of me!

What sail to carry in these conditions? It depends on what you are doing. If you ar racing, or looking to find the limits of the boat then the boat itself will almost certainly take it, and other factors will cut in such as excessive weatyher helm long before the boat itself is at any serious risk. In an 18 footer, the rig will be amply strong enough to take the strain anyway, because the loading in these conditions is not huge.

If you are not in any particular hurry, the judgment call as to whether and when you reef down is one even experienced skippers have problems with. The books always say reef early. Very few skippers actually want to until it is really necessary. Until you are miore used tio the boat my suggestion would be to reef soon after you start feeling uncomfortable regularly on the big gusts, specially if they are coming in frequently.

What happens on bigger boats? It takes more wind to push them hard down, but yes it can happen in severe gusts, and probably almost as quickly as on a lively Micro. The bigger the boat the more difficult it is to control in heavy gusts. After 50 years sailing, my fear of heeling has almost vanished and been replaced by ensuring the boat I own feels stable in a gust. In my Trident 24 a big gust may push her well over, lee rail under and more (though that takes a lot of wind and by then she is wanting to round up), but the feeling of stability means it does not matter and I am happy to push her hard. I have sailed larger more 'touchy' boats where which did worry me a bit though.

As boats get bigger they become less and less 'dinghy like', and for those of us who like my wife prefer to sail upright, heeling is less of an issue. In any case boats do not sail any faster 'on their ears'. It may look dramatic, but heavy heeling is rarely a race winner.

Weterly Centaur does have that feeling of stability, and in any case will tend to round up if you push her beyond what she is comfortable with. Good choice of a nice stable boat.

 

[dylanwinter]

you sail a micro-challenger - big dinghy

a centaur will just lean and groan a little

bigger boats are easier than little ones

worry not

Dylan

 

[Marakei]

I am not an experienced sailor and I don't like heeling in gusts either, although I'm getting more used to it. It's that or a catamaran!

Put a reef in before going out in any wind, you can always take it out later. As well as reducing sail area this will make the boat heel less as it moves the centre of effort lower. You can turn a little towards the wind in a gust to depower the sail, as well as sheeting out. Sailing close hauled you can sail right at the edge of the no-go zone, pinching, with the telltales vertically upright, which also depowers.

Once you are comfortable using depowering techniques your sense of control grows, and you are soon happy to power up more, or at least that is what I found.

Dylan is right: once you have learnt to manage your lively little boat a Centaur will be no problem!

 

[prv]

when it gusts occasionally like that, should I have reefed, or is it normal and you ride out the occasional gust and man-up?

Broadly speaking, cruisers reef for the gusts, and accept going a bit slower in the lulls. Racers reef for the lulls, and deal with being overcanvassed in the gusts.

Pete

 

[[70521]]

a centaur will just lean and groan a little

It may huff and puff.

Think of a Westerly Centaur as a World War I tank while you are in a wee wheel barrow.

 

[macd]

Don't panic, Chrisbitz! As others have said, a larger keelboat will handle gusts better. Be prepared to ease the mainsheet quickly to de-power the sail, and make sure your crew understand this, too. It's well worth going through the motions of being slightly over-canvassed in gusty conditions, perhaps in sheltered waters, so that you, and they, can be reassured by this.

I realise you'll have a lot to learn, but the sky and sea can often tell you when gusts are coming: black squall clouds (often with rain but not always), white horses marching your way. Learn to read the signs and anticipate. If there are other yachts in the vicinity, especially to windward, keep a weather eye on them: their panic could save yours

In gusty conditions it's always prudent to leave extra sea-room: not just the strength but the direction of wind can be unpredictable, and the boat may very well try to round up. In other words your course may not be so accurate as in steady conditions.

It's also worth looking for gusty conditions in the weather forecast. Generally, the unstable atmospheric conditions following a cold front are conducive to gusts. In other words, clear but chilly conditions with lots of showers about: typical April skies. Gusts are essentially caused by air movement with a strong vertical component, the result of this instability. The most intense form of vertical movement is, of course, thunderstorm activity...or anything causing clouds with lots of vertical development, notably cumulonimbus.

Some grib forecasts, such a Zygrib, give a prediction of gusts. It's perhaps worth familiarising yourself with it: forewarned is forearmed.

Fair (and steady) winds.

 

[Niander]

Also you can steer into the wind...that will ease it straight away
i had a similar experience clearing a headland the wind was much stronger there..i saw the change in waves but the extra power still took me by suprize!
a lesson i will never forget!

 

[fireball]

Also you can steer into the wind...that will ease it straight away

Only if the wind is forward of the beam - otherwise bear away - but not too far ..

 

[johnphilip]

Broadly speaking, cruisers reef for the gusts, and accept going a bit slower in the lulls. Racers reef for the lulls, and deal with being overcanvassed in the gusts.

Pete

Well put.
Fully crewed racers will have one crew member whose sole job is mainsheet trimmer and will be dumping the power of the main before the rudder overloads and the boat heels enough to slow and round up into the wind. Yachts, and increasingly as you go down towards dinghy size, are most vulnerable when barely moving, just after a tack before gathering speed or when with too much sail up you have both main and jib eased and flogging. This is the moment when any further wind speed will give you a nasty moment. Reduce sail as said before and the boat will get to windward faster than with spilling a lot of wind. Much more comfortable and secure feeling too.

 

[johnalison]

Because the sail area increases with the square of the boat's length and the displacement with the cube, larger boats are enormously more weather-tolerant than small ones. This doesn't mean that small boats can't cope with strong winds, just that the sailor has to be craftier.

As johnphilip says, getting up speed is the best protection. A problem with spilling wind occurs when the sail flogs, the boat slows and the keel stalls. It is better to keep a weather-eye open to windward. You can almost always see wind approaching.

 

[TTwiggy]

I got caught out by a sudden squall last summer on the Medway, when I was in our little Carina 20. One minute we were joking how there was barely a puff of wind for steerage, and then within seconds we are hit by driving rain, black cloud and F7+ winds.

We were very over canvassed, as there had been no wind to speak of before this, and the boat has a hanked-on 150% genoa. We heeled very alarmingly, almost on our beam ends, but she rounded up and came right up. A scary moment for sure - I'm only just returning to sailing after a few years in dinghys when I was a nipper, and my girlfriend has never sailed before.

We have a Mirage 28 now, so I'm hoping we can ride things out better now (and we also have a properly reefable main and roller gib, with all lines led aft, so should be easier to control too!).

 

[Lakesailor]

You're meaning like 3minutes/10seconds and 5minute/40seconds in this video. This is a 17ft dinghy-like boat. Probably not as tender as a micro cup boat. Having said that a micro cup boat will have more ballast lower down. I tended to sail with the mainsheet in my hand so I could dump it if needed, but to try and hold my course as the gusts on the lake are only short.
Once you have the confidence in the boat you will feel much happier. Personally I don't like a boat which rounds up into the wind on it's own. It means you are no longer in control.

 

[chrisbitz]

yes, that video shows exactly what I'm talking about.

What a lovely and encouraging bunch of comments I've had to my question! I was half expecting a load of grumpys saying that I should go on a RYA sailing course before getting into my boat!

And funnily enough, my boat lived on Windermere for 25 years before I brought her down to the Medway!

 

[William_H]

All good advice but yes basically you need to man up to heeling. This of course comes quickly with experience but but does not help with nervous crew or passengers.
Most small boats will happily heel to the point where the rudder coming out of the water and the asymetry of the hull cause an uncontrollable round up. (boat turns into the wind) This means the boat is heeling too much but does prove the fail safe nature of the boat. If you were racing you would realise just how much a round up can waste distance and speed.
A sudden gust is handled primarily by easing the main sheet. You and or your crew will soon realise and be confident in dumping power and so reducing heel in a gust. Yes you can turn into the wind (luff up) a little but be very wary of putting the boat about. In other words the jib remaining cleated is backed (turned inside out) and this shoves the bow around into a tack and can quickly have you heeling in the opposite direction. The boat also stops at this point so you have no control with rudder.
So a little luffing up and a lot of mainsail dumping when hit by a gust. Assuming working to windward or reaching.
As said turning down wind is the answer if you are running or broad reaching. This turning downwind can be difficult because the boa tin heeling will want to turn the other way into the wind. It is particularly difficult with a spinacker up and shy. You have to anticipate the gust and heeling and turn down wind while you still have rudder in the water.
( you will understand that at 45 degrees heel not only is the rudder starting to come out of the water but half the turning power of the rudder is trying to lift the stern rather than turn the boat down wind.)

So heeling is a bad thing when racing (and aren't all sailors racing ie trying to get the best out of their boat).
On the other hand if you reduce sail area to give almost no heeling then you will not go as fast as possible between the gusts.
I don't know if OP boat has hanked on jibs or roller reefing. Hanked on does work better but is an effort to change the jib if the weather comes up or you estimated wrong. If you find you are dumping the mainsail more than half the time then it is time for a smaller jib.

So to the OP just go carefully. You can do untold damage to the confidence of your crew especially if it is your spouse. Give her control of the mainsheet so she can feel in control of the heel. Your boat should happily lean far beyond what you can do with plain sails without any concerns. My little boat often goes over under spin to the point where the windows are in the water, the water pours into the cockpit and crew are standing on the side wall of the cockpit. No problem just hang on and wait for it to come up. Once you have done this you will feel more confident.

This is my little boat undergoing stability testing. As you can see the only problem is for the crew to be able to hang on. It showed 30kg of righting moment at the hounds when horizontal. Of course with crew on board she floats a lot lower in the water but still quite safe. So just relax and enjoy whateve4r conditions you get when sailing. good luck olewill

 

[onesea]

yes, that video shows exactly what I'm talking about.

What a lovely and encouraging bunch of comments I've had to my question! I was half expecting a load of grumpys saying that I should go on a RYA sailing course before getting into my boat!

And funnily enough, my boat lived on Windermere for 25 years before I brought her down to the Medway!

Your just as likely to get a bunch of grumpy gits complaining about the RYA

You did it right it can take some getting used to, as others have said reef early...

 

[Contest1]

It may huff and puff.

Think of a Westerly Centaur as a World War I tank while you are in a wee wheel barrow.

I love my tank, always feel she can handle anything despite my limited experience. She rounds up a bit in gusts but never to the point, so far anyway, of of stalling. In these conditions I,m never far from the main sheet.

 

[mrming]

Gently rounding up when very overpowered in gusts is a good feature IMO and not something you should be worried about. Better that than the boat going on it's side. A steady hand on the mainsheet will sort the boat out for most minor gusts. If you think the wind is going to stay like that then pop in a reef.