GT Yachts are back!

[Seven Spades]

I have just had a letter from MDL saying that they are exhibiting at a boat show this weekend at Ocean Village. They are making a twin keeled model called GT325 which is designed by Stephen Jones. The photos look rather nice, I hope that they have better luck this time. It says that they are making the boats at Mercury in the Hamble.

 

[mjcoon]

MDL = Marina Developments Limited ?

 

[flaming]

That is one heavy 32 footer...

It's 200kg heavier than the 34 foot Oceanis, and 400kg heavier than the 34 foot Bavaria. Both of which I'd call distinctly on the porky side. And are bigger.

It's also 1300kg heavier than the Sadler 32 that was last built in 1989.

 

[jwilson]

Stephen Jones designed the Sadler 290 which despite being twin keel and moderately heavy displacement for it's size, sails beautifully and quite quickly for a pure cruiser. Before Rampart who built the Sadler 290 went bust they had plans for a 340 - maybe this is a reincarnation/update of the design. I looked at the original GT35 at a Southampton Boat show quite a few years ago and liked a lot except the vile colour scheme and fake carbon look.

 

[doug748]

Stephen Jones designed the Sadler 290 which despite being twin keel and moderately heavy displacement for it's size, sails beautifully and quite quickly for a pure cruiser. Before Rampart who built the Sadler 290 went bust they had plans for a 340 - maybe this is a reincarnation/update of the design. I looked at the original GT35 at a Southampton Boat show quite a few years ago and liked a lot except the vile colour scheme and fake carbon look.

And, of course, the price. I recall it stuck around and eventually seemed to find a buyer albeit at a huge discount. The moaners on here loved it, took them 5 years to settle down.

That will be the sticking point people will say: "generous displacement Great, well fitted out, Triffic, lead keel, Grand, good ballast ratio, Perfect." And then go and buy a boat that does not suit their requirements so well.......but is a 100 grand cheaper or 10 foot longer.
I think Rassy are feeling the pinch for the same reasons.

Anyway we will see but I bet it's not cheap.

.

 

[Seven Spades]

I really hope it is a success. I think it is a real challenge to make a small boat profitably which is why Oyster make much bigger boats these days. the same issue effected small car manufacturers and Colin Chapman discontinued the Elans and Europa in favour of the Esprit and by all accounts saved the company. Discovery was selling 48's and small Southerlys quite well so there are people around with budgets for new boats so I wish them luck.

 

[Habebty]

Yes, had an email from them. If it sails as well as Sadler 290, then I would have one, not that I know the price yet! The GT 35 was berthed next to me for a while and I seriously considered buying it as the second hand price was pretty good.

 

[Tranona]

Looks like a Southerly 32 had a weekend away with a Sadler 290 - not surprising that it looks like it does. Interestingly the key dimensions except for the ballast are almost identical to my Farr design Bav 33. Wonder how they managed to lose a tonne in the construction to put in the ballast!. Inevitably the sail area is a bit higher owing to the higher ballast ratio.

If they can keep the final price well below £200k ( a 30-40% premium over a Bav 34 fully equipped with a bow thruster, heating full instruments, heating etc it should find buyers. However suspect that as with other "premium" brands while the base cost may look attractive the cost of (essential) extras will kill it.

 

[robmcg]

The GT 35 was berthed next to me for a while and I seriously considered buying it as the second hand price was pretty good.

It could still be yours.........
GT Yachts GT35 Used Boat for Sale 2014

 

[flaming]

If they can keep the final price well below £200k ( a 30-40% premium over a Bav 34 fully equipped with a bow thruster, heating full instruments, heating etc it should find buyers. However suspect that as with other "premium" brands while the base cost may look attractive the cost of (essential) extras will kill it.

I'd be prepared to stake quite a lot that the list price will be well north of £200k.

To be honest, I think it's a shame. I would love to see GT be successful, but the economics of small run, high quality, builds just get worse and worse as you reduce the size of the boat.

I also find the marketing to be a bit odd. It talks of a fast coastal cruiser, able to take the ground, but then uses words like solid and robust to describe the sailing. And finally concludes that it's an outstanding coastal hopper.
Honestly, if the design brief is coastal hopper, then to my mind it's at least a tonne, maybe more, over weight. And then if you're looking for comfortable coastal cruising in mostly good weather, then it would not be a hard argument to make that a boat of the same price that is significantly larger would be more comfortable.

 

[Habebty]

I'd be prepared to stake quite a lot that the list price will be well north of £200k.

To be honest, I think it's a shame. I would love to see GT be successful, but the economics of small run, high quality, builds just get worse and worse as you reduce the size of the boat.

I also find the marketing to be a bit odd. It talks of a fast coastal cruiser, able to take the ground, but then uses words like solid and robust to describe the sailing. And finally concludes that it's an outstanding coastal hopper.
Honestly, if the design brief is coastal hopper, then to my mind it's at least a tonne, maybe more, over weight. And then if you're looking for comfortable coastal cruising in mostly good weather, then it would not be a hard argument to make that a boat of the same price that is significantly larger would be more comfortable.



I think you are right about the marketing being a little “odd”, because in my mind?, the reality is likely to very different.
In 2004, I placed an order for a 290 costing all up about the same as a Bav 36. I got a boat that sails as (if not faster), in cruising mode displaces about 5.5t, and capable of handling some sphincter tightening weather, not of course as comfortably as a larger boat. Also costs a lot less in the Marina. Nearly 18 years later, I still have it and still happy with it( apart from the bloody headlining?)
The economics are as stated difficult, and will need clever targeted marketing to seek out those who want this sort of pedigree boat over a mass produced cruiser (absolutely nothing wrong with BenJenBavs for clarity).
290s Built by Rampart started at about £65k 2004 and I believe we’re selling for up to £95k? 2008 for the last few of the 50 or so built. So, 14 years later, the uplift on £95k allowing for production by a high end builder should be about £165kish? I think some people may find downsizing with the more attractive running costs, to be an attractive proposition perhaps.

 

[Tranona]

I'd be prepared to stake quite a lot that the list price will be well north of £200k.

To be honest, I think it's a shame. I would love to see GT be successful, but the economics of small run, high quality, builds just get worse and worse as you reduce the size of the boat.

I also find the marketing to be a bit odd. It talks of a fast coastal cruiser, able to take the ground, but then uses words like solid and robust to describe the sailing. And finally concludes that it's an outstanding coastal hopper.
Honestly, if the design brief is coastal hopper, then to my mind it's at least a tonne, maybe more, over weight. And then if you're looking for comfortable coastal cruising in mostly good weather, then it would not be a hard argument to make that a boat of the same price that is significantly larger would be more comfortable.

I always thought that there was a market for this type of boat, just that nobody had the courage to build one in a real production way. Think of the success of the Moody Eclipse 33 (which was 5.7 tonnes and the desirability of the Southerly 32 - all of 7.2 tonnes!). I can imagine Bavaria doing a "Vision" on the 33 that I had. Bit more displacement and ballast (lead keel) greater sail area raised aft coachroof with windows, bit more plush down below and a 25% price premium over standard. It worked with the bigger sizes (38-46') although the volumes were not huge. If such a thing had been available I would have bought one and judging by the sort of people who bought the 33 in the UK suspect many others would. At around £125k in 2015 it would have been just above the price of a 37.

 

[robmcg]

I would imagine it is very difficult to breakthrough in the mainstream new yacht market these days. The big manufacturers have a dominant position and enjoy the benefits of the economies of scale that go with volume manufacturing. Differentiating from the 'norm' is thus a double edged sword. Your offering has to be different, but not so radically different that it puts buyers off.

 

[flaming]

I always thought that there was a market for this type of boat, just that nobody had the courage to build one in a real production way. Think of the success of the Moody Eclipse 33 (which was 5.7 tonnes and the desirability of the Southerly 32 - all of 7.2 tonnes!). I can imagine Bavaria doing a "Vision" on the 33 that I had. Bit more displacement and ballast (lead keel) greater sail area raised aft coachroof with windows, bit more plush down below and a 25% price premium over standard. It worked with the bigger sizes (38-46') although the volumes were not huge. If such a thing had been available I would have bought one and judging by the sort of people who bought the 33 in the UK suspect many others would. At around £125k in 2015 it would have been just above the price of a 37.

Don't forget that in 2014 GT managed to make a 35 foot boat cost over £300k.
Realistically the savings in making a 32 foot boat instead of a 35 foot boat are not massive... Unless they're really changing their whole build philosophy (which that website doesn't really back up) then it's hard to see this boat coming in less than £250k today. And I suspect more.

Are there really lots of people who have a quarter of a million pounds to spend on a boat to be used for coastal cruising but only want one 32 foot long...?

 

[Tranona]

Are there really lots of people who have a quarter of a million pounds to spend on a boat to be used for coastal cruising but only want one 32 foot long...?

No, but make it £160k by Bavaria and there would be quite a long (relatively) queue at least in N Europe.

 

[doris]

Looking at the numbers, the GT 325 is pretty much the same dimensions as a HR 342. Which in turn has more space down below than a Sigma 362. A sign of the times that space and hydrodynamics have moved hugely. Messrs Jones and Thomas, my two favourite boat designers.
I must ask Mr Jones to get an IRC certificate for the 325 so we can all compare the technical sailing performance .

 

[doris]

Are there really lots of people who have a quarter of a million pounds to spend on a boat to be used for coastal cruising but only want one 32 foot long...?

I think the price target is £200k sail away, which is probably pretty competitive.

 

[RivalRedwing]

Ditch the teak deck for starters to save a few £

 

[ashtead]

It’s probably Flexiteak surely -save you less than £10k though if a factory fit . I’m still not able to get the market these GTs are aimed at though? Is it the Hallberg buyer who wants to buy British or am I missing something here?

 

[Tranona]

It’s probably Flexiteak surely -save you less than £10k though if a factory fit . I’m still not able to get the market these GTs are aimed at though? Is it the Hallberg buyer who wants to buy British or am I missing something here?

There is (or was) a market from mature buyers, retirement present type of thing where size is not so important but quality and comfort is. Problem is that sub 35' production boat design has moved away from the requirements of mature buyers and the premium for boats like HRs etc is too high. This boat is likely also to be too expensive to sell in any volume - but volumes have never been huge anyway. Sadler 290 only got to about 60 in nearly 10 years, similar to Southerly 32 volumes. suspect, though it will start with a flurry of sales in the first couple of years and then struggle.