Grey water

[Nick_H]

Has anyone come up with a better solution for grey water than the normal small accumulator box, with an integral bilge pump and float switch to expel the water out through a sea cock via a non return valve.

Ours regularly gets blocked up with hair, and is an unpleasant job to clean, plus i've had to replace all the components at least once.

I was thinking maybe an external diaphragm pump would be better which would just suck the hair out, or maybe an easy access mesh filter on the inlet, although neither of these solves the unreliability of the parts problem, especially the float switch.

Best option would be a ready made complete system so I could just chuck out the current tank and replace it with something more robust and/or easier to clean. Does such a thing exist? I'm not really constrained by space as it's alone is a fairly big section of the hull.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Sounds like a hair-brained plan to me, although I can understand why you need a perm solution...

Cheers
Jimmy

PS Sorry, couldn't help it, I realise I haven't helped much - you'll be unsurprised to hear that I don't have too much of a problem with my hair blocking up the shower sump.

 

[jrudge]

A friend has a V42 ( 2002 vintage I think) and they have exactly that. They turn it on when they shower ( it makes a terrible racket) and turn it off at the end.

I assume it was factory fit?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Actually, slightly prompted by jrudge, I've just remembered that Fairline now fit diaphragm pumps for grey water discharge, rather than the bilge pump that boats of our vintage have fitted. A common complaint is about the noise of the pump, compared to the bilge-pump style of shower sump kit.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Nick_H]

A friend has a V42 ( 2002 vintage I think) and they have exactly that. They turn it on when they shower ( it makes a terrible racket) and turn it off at the end.

I assume it was factory fit?

Diaphragm pumps are noisy when they're not full of water, so it would be better to still have it on a switch. I've seen a type of bilge pump switch with no moving parts, anyone have any experience of them?

 

[Nick_H]

Actually, slightly prompted by jrudge, I've just remembered that Fairline now fit diaphragm pumps for grey water discharge, rather than the bilge pump that boats of our vintage have fitted. A common complaint is about the noise of the pump, compared to the bilge-pump style of shower sump kit.

Cheers
Jimmy

Yes, ours is very quiet (especially when it's broke), but I could live with some more noise if it was more reliable. I'll have to check out what Fairline are doing on the new boats.

 

[jfm]

Diaphragm pumps are noisy when they're not full of water, so it would be better to still have it on a switch. I've seen a type of bilge pump switch with no moving parts, anyone have any experience of them?

On Match1 I had their new style thing in the aft section of the boat. Diaphragm pump (whale Gulper, iirc) and whale 9001 no-moving-parts "float" switch. The pump was noisy and the switch failed once during my ownership. So no better, on either the switch or the pump score, than the usual sumps with moving float switches and centrifugal pumps.

Only difference is this switch failed in the closed circuit position not open

Imho the solution to the unreliable float switches is to fit 2 in parallel, so one can fail and the pump still pumps. And hopefully you find and replace the dead ones during your regular filter cleans. And use centrifugal pumps becuase diaphragms are too noisy, near cabins. That's what I have specced on Match2

If you look up failure of rule float switches on google you find zillions of cases on US forums, so their unreliability seems well established

These look good; haven't tried; might give them a go. You can't quickly test these as you inspect your boat however, unless a wet sponge does the trick - I dunno. Maybe the answer is to fit these in parallel to the ordinary float switches, in both grey sumps and bilges, to hedge your bets

 

[Nick_H]

These look good; haven't tried; might give them a go. You can't quickly test these as you inspect your boat however, unless a wet sponge does the trick - I dunno. Maybe the answer is to fit these in parallel to the ordinary float switches, in both grey sumps and bilges, to hedge your bets

Interesting that you haven't found the "no moving parts switch" any better, and are also reverting to a centrifugal pump. I think i'll investigate the front end filter instead, probably fashion something with a sheet filter that's simple to remove and clean, bit like the air filter on an air-con blower unit. (There's currently no filter at all, so hair tends to block the switch and pump)

The bilge pump switches you've linked to do sound promising, well worth a try. Easy enough to test them by running clean water down the sink I suppose. I think i'd need the hair filter as well, otherwise wet hair may build up and bridge the contacts

 

[jfm]

Easy enough to test them by running clean water down the sink I suppose.

Yeah true; I meant awkward to test if you used them as regular bilge pump switches, assuming you keep your bilges clean and dry

You def need a hair filter. Surprise you dont have them - have they been lost? I thought all these sumps came with a cylindrical tube plastic filter, like a kitchen roll centre tube with lots of holes, jammed in the box in axial lined upness with the inlet. Some also have a simple square sheet of plastic as afilter, with holes, bent into an angle, and slotted in the box across the corner where the inlet is. Should be easily bodgeable

 

[tolhurstorganic]

Easiest solution is a diaphram pump situated anywhere convenient with a simple switch fitted high up in dry place. So it makes a bit of a noise but we only turn on on when the shower tray is full so its not on for long, never blocks up and very reliable.

 

[vas]

These look good; haven't tried; might give them a go. You can't quickly test these as you inspect your boat however, unless a wet sponge does the trick - I dunno. Maybe the answer is to fit these in parallel to the ordinary float switches, in both grey sumps and bilges, to hedge your bets

hm, these switched could be good, HOWEVER, that's as dodgy a website as it can ever be! just a single page, no link to buy, no extra info, nothing!
Need to search for some more reputable e-shop/b&m shop to buy.
The dual one looks v.good as I could plug the bilge pump on the lower one and wire the signal to the BMS on the other

anyone found these on sale somewhere, I'm interested for a 3-4...

cheers

V.

 

[kcrane]

Interesting that you haven't found the "no moving parts switch" any better, and are also reverting to a centrifugal pump. I think i'll investigate the front end filter instead, probably fashion something with a sheet filter that's simple to remove and clean, bit like the air filter on an air-con blower unit. (There's currently no filter at all, so hair tends to block the switch and pump)

The bilge pump switches you've linked to do sound promising, well worth a try. Easy enough to test them by running clean water down the sink I suppose. I think i'd need the hair filter as well, otherwise wet hair may build up and bridge the contacts

Don't you have the small circular filter between the shower and the pump/sump kit? It is a clear plastic effort, about the size of a tin of tuna (couldn't think of another example). the top screws off and there is a small wire mesh insert to catch hair of all varieties. I cleaned ours this weekend, so I know it isn't pleasant to do, but better than blocking the pump.

I have also needed to replace the sump box and pump both forward and aft, so they're definitely poor quality things.

 

[SolentPhill]

Yes, having posted on here before about these I had to look into it and trust me I've tried it all, new box, higher float switch, bigger box, different valves.

The valves you get that lok like squashed plastic don't work you can blow down them, yes I know water is heavier.

These are the best valves http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JABSCO-IN...tEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item231d727c43

I have a spare as well, but what I did was to take out the filter out all together put a better plug hole in shower, then out of the box I have a 2 inch pipe then the valve then another hose that goes straight up with a loop and comes down next to it then joins and goes out of the boat.

The loop stop the back flow and the decent valve stops it going back in. The hairs all go through the pump as does all other bits as it been in there a while now. I keep the spare and once a year I change it over wash the dirty one out and pour washing up liquid and hot water and slap it around with a paint brush.

Not had a problem since.

 

[Nick_H]

You def need a hair filter. Surprise you dont have them - have they been lost? I thought all these sumps came with a cylindrical tube plastic filter, like a kitchen roll centre tube with lots of holes, jammed in the box in axial lined upness with the inlet. Some also have a simple square sheet of plastic as afilter, with holes, bent into an angle, and slotted in the box across the corner where the inlet is. Should be easily bodgeable

It's never had a hair filter, but obviously should have, so i'll fix one somehow, and maybe swap the switch for the ones you linked to. The pump lasted 7 years before needing to be replaced this year, and even then it may have been trying to run whilst blocked up with hair, so it may have been fine if there'd been a filter, so i'm unlikley to need to change it again. Sorted.

 

[SolentPhill]

It's never had a hair filter, but obviously should have, so i'll fix one somehow, and maybe swap the switch for the ones you linked to. The pump lasted 7 years before needing to be replaced this year, and even then it may have been trying to run whilst blocked up with hair, so it may have been fine if there'd been a filter, so i'm unlikley to need to change it again. Sorted.

In my plug hole I put a crushed lump of wire, all the hair got caught on that.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Does your box have strainers in it? On my boat all the grey water from the heads drains into the box through simple metal strainers which catch all the hair and other detritus. See arrows on photo below



The strainers can be easily removed for cleaning and I do that about once a season (a particularly unpleasant job). Also the bilge pump switch is a electromagnetic type rather than a float type which can get gummed up with debris. Never had a problem with this system although once I had to wipe clean the electromagnetic switch as it became covered with scud and stopped working

 

[Nick_H]

Does your box have strainers in it?

No, it doesn't, which is obviously the main part of the problem. I'd kind of assumed that none of them did, though i've no idea why i'd assume that as it makes no sense. It'll be very easy to fit something.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

It'll be very easy to fit something.

Yes it would. The strainers on my boat are just rectangular box shaped things which could be knocked up by any half competent fabricator and they're fixed to the sides of the sump with self tappers via elongated holes so that the strainers can be lifted off easily for cleaning

 

[alt]

On my Cranchi (and the Cranchi I had before), at the end of the pipe which enters the sump is a long plastic tube (which takes up the length of the sump box) with holes on it - The idea is it catches the hair and allows the water to drain through.

It works well and I clean it out once a season - Apart from un-screwing the 4 screws on the sump itself, the job only takes about 1 minute! I will take a picture for you tomorrow when i'm at the boat.

 

[vas]

slightly off topic (not much though!)

you guys have all grey water going into these boxes?

mike, you cannot possibly have 6showers, so heads' sink output goes there and then is pumped out, right?
Is there any good reason for that? I mean showers, yes typically are below w/l so you need to do something, but sinks are well above and don't even need a loop (imho)

V.