Greenpeace

[Iliade]

Dogger Bank was not off Brighton the last time I looked. It is not currently illegal to bottom trawl in that area. Yes I am against dredge fishing in general, but the fishing remains legal at present. Dropping dirty great rocks into he sea isn't.

A fishing boat snags her gear and turns turtle frequently enough around here without GreenViolence adding to the problem.

 

[siwhi]

The UK has or soon will have some of the largest Marine Protected Areas in the world, in Pitcairn (Pacific), Chagos (Indian), and Ascension, Tristan da Cunha & South Georgia (Atlantic). If we can't ensure the protection of one a couple of miles off Brighton, what hope is there of ensuring the protection of these, somewhat larger ones, against illegal fishing?

Imagine the headlines if a couple of hundred illegal fishing vessels from an antagonistic foreign power started fishing in those waters.

 

[Robin]

I have some sympathy with your "judge jury and executioner" comment, but I can't help wondering whether the risk is being over-egged. did you read the original post and the link therein?

My first thought was that it's not just "don't fish illegally", but also "take normal seamanship precautions". Those precautions would include not deploying nets in an area of known seabed obstructions. Not known widely so far unless by TV watchers and even then no precise positions given just a vague reference to the threat.

So the question is, how known are they? The claim from Greenpeace is "We immediately notified the relevant marine authorities (Marine and Coastguard Agency) as to the precise location of the boulders bordering the protected area.". If the rocks were creating a serious hazard to navigation, or were creating a danger to fishing, I would expect something on the MSIs and Navtex. But as far as I can make out, nothing.

So why no Navtex warnings? Three possibilities spring to mind:
1) Greenpeace haven't notified any positions to MCA. But I would expect a rapid rebuttal from the MCA if that were the case.
2) MCA haven't got to it yet. Maybe they're verifying the positions and depths?
3) MCA have evaluated the information, and decided that there isn't a significant risk to navigation or fishing.

OR 4) Greenpeace are pulling an elaborate publicity / hoax Reminiscent of IRA tactics with bomb scares.

 

[siwhi]

Are you aware how long before those positions are actually marked on charts?

No idea how long it takes to get into the weekly chart updates, digital ones come out 10 days earlier. Couple of weeks? Here's next weeks NM if you need it:
https://www.admiralty.co.uk/WeeklyNMs/Year - 2021/09snii21_week09_2021.pdf

 

[Robin]

No idea how long it takes to get into the weekly chart updates, digital ones come out 10 days earlier. Couple of weeks? Here's next weeks NM if you need it:
https://www.admiralty.co.uk/WeeklyNMs/Year - 2021/09snii21_week09_2021.pdf

Weekly published, yes, but how old is the actual data that changed included.?

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I expect Greenpeace only dropped a few.

Just enough to gain plenty of publicity and coverage in the mainstream media which they seem to have achieved.

I want to know where they got the boulders from. Bit too big from places like Jewsons and Wickes.

 

[siwhi]

Weekly published, yes, but how old is the actual data that changed included.?

When I said I had no idea, I meant I had no idea. I'd guess a couple of weeks in this case. But, in the event anyone is considering an evening of non internet based bottom trawling, here are the co-ordinates of the boulders:
MMO Statement: 24 February 2021

Charts at the ready!
The positions are also listed on the fishingdaily.com and were broadcast by Greenpeace as they were dropping them.

I want to know where they got the boulders from. Bit too big from places like Jewsons and Wickes.

The dogger bank boulders were from a German quarry, guessing these are the same. They are similar to glacial moraine boulders.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

When I said I had no idea, I meant I had no idea. I'd guess a couple of weeks in this case. But, in the event anyone is considering an evening of non internet based bottom trawling, here are the co-ordinates of the boulders:
MMO Statement: 24 February 2021

Charts at the ready!
The positions are also listed on the fishingdaily.com and were broadcast by Greenpeace as they were dropping them.



The dogger bank boulders were from a German quarry, guessing these are the same. They are similar to glacial moraine boulders.

Quite a few then. Nineteen so far .

Will have to take a look at the Marine Traffic site to see where they are.

 

[JumbleDuck]

That's *exactly* what farming is. Fields aren't natural and they have heavy plant tearing them up all the time. We give up natural space for food which we need.

Farmers have to put some effort into producing what they sell. Fishermen don't. They're basically the Brazilian loggers of the seas.

 

[NorthRising]

No. The divers checked that there was no debris on the prop during contractor sea trials. The shaft seal leak was sorted. Nothing to do with lobster pots.

That was the time someone landed a drone on deck without detection.

 

[Robin]

Well good that the boulder positions have apparently been publicised at least. Bit akin to the IRA sometimes saying which trash bin they put the bomb in, or lying to divert resources elsewhere. I assume Greenpeace are well insured if a claim does arise for property or life.

 

[Babylon]

Let's all imagine a world where there was no Greenpeace, no environmental awareness or consciousness-raising action, etc.

What sort of world would that be?

 

[Stemar]

One where big business can do what it likes with no concern at all for our futures.

Oh, errrr, wait...

One where big business can do what it likes with even less concern at all for our futures.

 

[DJE]

So the trawlers will now avoid the rocks and each will become a small oasis of marine life from which species can spread out and re-colonise the surrounding sea bed. Sounds like a win-win to me.

 

[Tomahawk]

For a long time I have advocated "placing" various objects on the seabed to discourage fishing. Indeed I proposed disposing of MABs this way but everyone shouted at me for dispoiling the environment., I also wonder about tyres? Would barincles and marine life attach to them?

 

[sarabande]

Farmers have to put some effort into producing what they sell. Fishermen don't. They're basically the Brazilian loggers of the seas.

If something goes wrong when farming, one can usually step down onto solid ground. Farmers try to keep the balance between taking too much out of the land and not enough to make a living; the majority of fisherman have that as an objective, too.


Don't get me started on salmon farms, though.

 

[sarabande]

For a long time I have advocated "placing" various objects on the seabed to discourage fishing. Indeed I proposed disposing of MABs this way but everyone shouted at me for dispoiling the environment., I also wonder about tyres? Would barincles and marine life attach to them?

Tyres contain miles and miles of reinforcing cord, usually kevlar type.

Not a good idea if we want to remove as much plastic from the oceans as possible.

As for dumping expired GRP boats on the seabed, the third letter in the acronym should give you a clue. The sea is not a dustbin.

 

[Tomahawk]

Here is where we have different approaches. I am not suggesting using the sea as a dustbin. Rather doing something that preserves wildlife. For sure you can make artificial reefs out of pristine new materials. But that is degrading natural resources when there are materials on hand.

 

[JumbleDuck]

If something goes wrong when farming, one can usually step down onto solid ground. Farmers try to keep the balance between taking too much out of the land and not enough to make a living; the majority of fisherman have that as an objective, too.

There certainly are some responsible fishermen around, but it's not an essential for the job. I am not convinced that the hazards of the occupation excuse the wholesale pillaging and destruction of a common resource.

Don't get me started on salmon farms, though.

Oh yes indeed. Rendering entire sea lochs devoid of life as they dump in shit and antibiotics, then when the profits dry up they abandon their kit in situ and move on to despoil somewhere else.

 

[FlyingGoose]

If a mining company was doing it you might change your view.

Actually large rocks on the seabed create oasis of life as organisms can attach to them and create mini reefs , so a barren seabed suddenly becomes a habitat zone, hence why we sink old decks and create artificial reefs