Greenland: You boat of choice?

[Deleted member 36384]

In "North To the Night: A Spiritual Odyssey in the Arctic", Alvah Simon, Mainstream Publishing (ISBN 1 84018 360 8), he chose a steel, round chined hull. His plan was to become beset by ice in a bay, out of the ice flow, and over winter; which he did. The round chine was to help the hull rise up onto the ice if it started to get crushed by ice pressure. This did happen and the hull did rise up.

That Norwegian explorer bloke who deliberately got stuck in the arctic ice to demonstrate that the ice circulated, also had a round chined wooden boat built for the job. I think he specified it to be round as opposed to to straight sides underwater and then the turn of the hull. I am not too sure about that last bit, its been a long time since I read his account.

 

[Ric]

Rifle We got onto a course run by Cambridge University for field workers in the arctic, and spent a jolly day at Mildenhall range firing live rounds at imaginary bears. I guess it helps to have friends in BAS and CASP, but there must be similar courses elsewhere. I also contacted Suffolk Constabulary, and once they'd got their heads around the project they were really helpful and I got a firearms certificate/licence. Ing Paulson AG in Longyerabyen hired us a rifle (1942 bolt-action Mauser, complete with imperial eagle and swastika!) and sold us ammunition, using the firearms certficate as proof of suitability. I understand that the Norwegians, after the tragic shooting spree by that loony last year, are tighter in asking for such paperwork than hitherto. I'm told that in Greenland it's easier to buy a rifle than it is a beer...[

Nobody who is going up there for pleasure or adventure should be taking a rifle.

Fair enough to take a rifle if purpose of being there is for scientific research, but if you are just going for fun you have no right whatsoever to start shooting bears, even if they want to eat you. They are an endangered species, you are not. If you are not prepared to take the risk of being killed by a bear, then stay away.

 

[CreakyDecks]

I'd like to make the trip in a boat with a very inaccurate navigation system that would see me land in Bermuda.

 

[John Barry]

To the R36 chap, have you insulated the lockers and quarterberth sides and underdeck/undercockpit areas?
I now use with great success foil-backed 18mm closed cell insulation available from the diy 'sheds' and builders merchants (cheaper). This is trimmed to push fit each space using a boxcutter knife then has vinyl glued to the visible face matching the vinyl in the rest of the boat.

Insulation is one of the many areas that we've looked at.
As are firearms, scratched gel from a previous trip to Svalbard and options to reinforce, ability to keep a lookout from a protected area, instruments, comms (including sat comms above 70°N), rigging and sails, stores, liferaft, power supply, personal equipment, Greenland tides, navigation where the charts are 'approximate' at best, shore support from the UK, SAR deposit, and many hundreds of other areas.

But the comments and suggestions here are all interesting grist for the mill, even though no one has offered to come along as cook yet...

 

[Deleted member 36384]

..... If you are not prepared to take the risk of being killed by a bear, then stay away.

I believe some who chose to not take the risk of being eaten and also don't have guns use loud noises and flares to frighten the bear away as well as staying on the boat.

 

[TimBennet]

Nobody who is going up there for pleasure or adventure should be taking a rifle.

That's a fine sentiment, but unfortunately carrying an approved weapon is a legal requirement in some areas. However they are only to be used as a last resort, and then you don't 'have' to use them if that's your choice. Running away, hiding, flares, thunder flashes, are always to be tried first, and if that doesn't work, you still have a personal choice fo what to do next.

 

[Koeketiene]

Nobody who is going up there for pleasure or adventure should be taking a rifle.

Fair enough to take a rifle if purpose of being there is for scientific research, but if you are just going for fun you have no right whatsoever to start shooting bears, even if they want to eat you. They are an endangered species, you are not. If you are not prepared to take the risk of being killed by a bear, then stay away.

When going to Svalbard taking a rifle is not optional, it is compulsory.

If you don't bring your own, they'll rent one to you (see here).

 

[prv]

That's a fine sentiment, but unfortunately carrying an approved weapon is a legal requirement in some areas.

Yep - my brother's girlfriend (as mentioned above) wasn't really very keen on the idea but it was a condition of them visiting the area they needed to look at.

Pete

 

[TiggerToo]

Boreal.

Built especially for high-latitude sailing by people who have actually done it.

http://www.voiliers-boreal.com

they look really nice.. how much do they cost: are any for sale 2nd hand?

 

[TimBennet]

. . .they look really nice.. how much do they cost . . .

If you have to ask . . !!!

 

[Blueboatman]

Re Norman S
Reasoning that with an airgap between foil and hull it is akin to a 'ColdRoof' installation, I fitted with the foil outboard...
Be interesting to hear others views though as you could make a case either way, foil reflecting heat back into the cabin or reflecting tropical ambient (!) heat externally, for example?
What does seem useful is the airgap and keeping the aluminium foil clear of touching the hull sides. To this end each panel that I made up had vinyl wrapped around to the rear by 50mm or so. I think if I were going North I would be tempted to double up on the foam and simply pull the facing one 'forward' more into the locker. But I had to reduce the depth of some shelves marginally. And on curvy bits I fitted horixontal multi panels.

Hope that helps a tad?

To John Barry. You have been busy! I hope you get great weather. Did you fit a (temporary or permanent) hard Dodger, I wonder?

 

[John Barry]

To John Barry. You have been busy! I hope you get great weather. Did you fit a (temporary or permanent) hard Dodger, I wonder?

We have indeed been busy, but there's still much to do.

We don't have a hard dodger, but a high strength extended sprayhood with curtains at the aft end which close it off fully, and behind which two can shelter.

Quite handy in the UK recently...

 

[grenade]

One of Gilbert Caroff's aluminum hulls

Ok here is a hypothetical question and I'd be interested to hear what people would say. This isn't a test I'm just genuinely curious.

If you were to sail to Greenland and explore the coast and Baffin Bay for at least 6 months what sail boat would you take and justify it. Feel free to pad it out with the types of stuff you'd have on board. Would you want an enclosed wheelhouse, ketch rigged, two foresails, center cockpit?

Nice thread. This is a (pipe)dream of mine too. I want to go in one of Gilbert Caroff's aluminum hulls with a retractable keel. Probably a Chatam 40, if I can find one I can afford.

This is a Chatam 40 (that I can't afford):

and this is Northabout (designed by Caroff):

 

[rob2]

I was fascinated by the idea of abrasion of GRP. I've noticed that since applying Coppercoat, I can scrub with a lot more welly. That got me to thinking about the advice given in woodstrip canoe building books to use graphite loaded epoxy as a coating underwater if the boat is to be used on whitewater. I wonder if the same trick would work for occasional pushing through ice slurry?

Rob.

 

[Tim Good]

I just bloody love this forum. Within 8 hours of posting this question I've gained so many useful insights and avenues for research. Keeping it coming

 

[Daniel5]

I'd like an Island Packet, if it were me.

 

[pohopetch]

We have left our boat on the west coast of Greenland for this winter (in the water in Nuuk, but not staying on board). Ours is a 42ft steel sloop, but there were several GRP yachts in the area - probably 1 GRP for every 2 steel or aluminium. Here are a few comments related to other posts - just my views based on personal experience.

In the latter part of the season (mid Aug to early Oct) ice is not really problem on the west coast or SE coast of Greenland - the glacier ice is easily avoided. There is no ice at all on the Baffin Island side from mid August and between the Canadian Islands and Greenland it is ice free to 78 N in mid Aug to late Sep. Note that earlier accounts of difficult ice conditions relate to conditions 10 or more years ago which were quite different to current conditions.

There is no SAR bond required in Greenland, and there are local rescue services and support from the Danish Navy. Very little SAR on Canadian side/Baffin Island except further into the NW Passage where ice breakers stay on station through August/September. There is good local and offshore radio coverage, and reporting systems in Greenland, but next to nothing in Canadian waters.

Polar bears are not generally an issue on the west coast of Greenland until very far north as the locals tend to shoot them all. On the northern east coast of Greenland (the national park area) there are bears. Baffin Island east coast and Canadian Islands have many polar bears (we encountered 19 all up). A shotgun with slugs is way more powerful than any rifle for a close encounter with a bear (i.e less than 10 metres) but of course less so at longer ranges as energy bleeds off very quickly. A shotgun has the advantage over a rifle that it can be loaded with a range of shot types (assuming 5 shot magazine in a semi-auto or pump) - one or two bird shot for noise, 1 or 2 slugs for when the bear is charging at you, and a final 1 or 2 large buckshot for the last couple of metres before you die. Americans and Canadians tend to favour shotguns for bear protection, whereas Europeans favour rifles - maybe more to do with firearms law than anything (slugs and 5 shot shotguns not legal in UK). Polar bears are aggressive in late summer with no ice and therefore no seals - way more so than grizzlies - and in a close encounter (e.g. unexpected meeting at a few metres) you can be at serious risk. Bear spray is a good option before firearms.

Diesel fuel is very readily available in Greenland at every little village and port. It is also very cheap - around US$1 per litre equivalent - way cheaper than US or Canada (and Europe I guess). So I don't see extended fuel capacity as essential for Greenland.

Water is harder to get both in Greenland and Canada - mainly because there are no external hoses and taps at docks and harbours because of the winter freezing. So you need to get it from a fishing boat, fish processing plant, or carry it in jerry cans, or have a water maker. We have an engine driven water maker rated at 80 litres per hour. It does 100 litres per hour in the tropics, and did 65 litres per hour in the arctic with water temperature down to 0 deg C. Some cruisers have reported very poor water maker performance in cold water (and even installed pre-heaters) but we found this not to be the case. I would rate the water maker as one of the great life enhancers in the arctic. We supplied water to some other cruising boats.

Wind and weather protection is a great life enhancer also. We had all-round plastic clears made for our cockpit in Canada and have found these to be fantastic. The cockpit becomes another usable room is all weather. With the diesel stove going down in the cabin we might have 18 deg in the cabin, 12 degrees in the cockpit (with clears up) and 4 degrees outside. It is nice not to have all crew members having to get the full foul weather gear on every time you are underway - only the one on the bow getting up the anchor sometimes!

Good luck with the planning!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

A few comments to expand on what I've already said.

1. My experience is of the High Arctic and Antarctic; probably beyond "usual" cruising grounds; nearly 80 N in Svalbard and 67 S in Antarctica.
2. Ice certainly IS a problem in Svalbard and Antarctica; it is also a problem on the East coast of Greenland, but less so in the SW , though you can never be sure there won't be bergy bits around. I don't know the Canadian Arctic, but would expect glacier ice to be less of a problem there. My "Least polar" experience is in Kangerlussuaq (Sondrestromfjord) (SW Greenland), where few glaciers reach the sea, and so there is little ice.
3. SW Greenland is temperate enough that the Vikings settled there; the southern part of Greenland is technically not in the polar regions; Cape Farewell is even south of 60 degrees N, which is an informal boundary of polar regions; the Shetlands extend further north! When we published a map of the Arctic, which extended north from 60N, we had to make a small extension to include Cape Farewell.
4. Sea Ice and Glacier ice are very different, and occur in different places. My remarks primarily concerned glacier ice, which is a year-round problem in coastal waters where glaciers reach the sea, and is on the increase rather than the decrease as calving rates increase. Calving rates also increase during the summer, and certainly in Svalbard and Antarctica there is no season when you won't encounter a lot of ice rubble in the water. RIBs operated out of Rothera avoid such patches when possible, but it is often not possible, in which case they proceed at speeds that Dylan would approve of. Glacier ice is difficult to see in rough water; it is more or less transparent and irregularly shaped.
5. Melting ice is the normal way of getting drinking water in the Polar regions; choose the right ice and it will be purer than any supply you can get in civilized places or from a watermaker! Ice from Polar glaciers is incredibly pure; more so than the distilled water supply in a chemical lab without special "clean room" facilities. Melting ice takes a lot of fuel, but probably no more than running a watermaker. Just don't eat any yellow snow
6. Other people have commented on inhabited parts of the Polar regions; my experience and work is primarily with uninhabited and uninhabitable regions.
7. Not really relevant and I dislike blowing my own trumpet, but I've worked on polar science for over 30 years, meeting and working with many people with first hand professional experience, advising and helping to plan much work in both Arctic and Antarctic. If someone is operating in Antarctica and hasn't heard of resources I used to manage, then they haven't done their homework as they are definitive for the geography (through the former, I have informally advised yachts planning to go to Antarctica). I also know yachting people who operate in the Southern Ocean and Antarctica, including one of the authors of "Southern Ocean Cruising" (who briefly worked for me).

 

[Jim@sea]

Nauticat 33. Built in the cold, for the cold.

 

[Blue Fox]

This yacht seems especially designed for icy waters, with composite epoxy and foam up to 22 mm: Northern Comfort 43 http://www.yachtingcompany.nl/en/952240/Northern_Comfort_43.html. Now for sale.
I have no experience in (Ant)arctic waters - only in an Atlantic crossing - but I would prefer a more sheltered cockpit. A pilot house is more restricting in looking around then people think.