Greek paperwork

[davidbains]

After five years cruising Greece, last year I was required to buy
a "Private Pleasure Maritime Document". Skippers are supposed to
present this at the Harbour masters office at every port, presumaby
when leaving, or maybe even when entering and leaving!
Most simple anchorages do not have an office. Nor does the skipper
have daily time to get the right official to stamp the document.
Yet one hears of fines been levied against skippers who do not keep
up with the paperwork. Returning from Croatia last year after only
three weeks away it took three visits to Corfu HM to be stamped back
in, and I only just escaped having to buy another one because my
trip out of Greece had been less than one month.
Yet many boats are not carrying these papers or presenting them,
with impunity. It does seem odd that the paperwork is becoming more
difficult after Greece's entry into the Euro and custom union. You even
have to get permision to launch now which took an hour in the office
at Preveza last summer, while forms were completed in quadruplicate
by bored staff. What's going on!? I understand some boats are leaving Greece
because of the hassle. Yet I cleared into and out of Croatia last year in 15mins!!

 

[snowleopard]

ditto portugal

every time you enter a portuguese port you have to report and fill out a long form, even when coast-hopping. totally against the spirit of the eu but helps to keep the many beaurocrats in a job. when i visited porto santo last year i was told that on this totally unproductive island, 70% of the population are employed by the government and the rest provide services to those people. the portuguese government gets subsidies from brussels so who ends up paying the bill? you've guessed it: us!

perhaps the eu is the problem, not the solution!

 

[summerwind]

Re: ditto portugal

Hey, hey!! Hang on a minute.

Have you forgotten what it was like to enter a country before we had the EU? Yes, we moan about the paperwork now, but it is nothing to what it used to be, is it?

I don't think people from the UK should be too vocal about the Greeks doing things outside of the spirit of the EU. I suspect that the UK is the biggest maverick in the organisation, even though the milk snatcher has been gone for quite some time. Yes, we know about the crooks, the jobs for the boys, blizzards of paperwork etc, but it was like that before - the s h one t just came from a different source.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Yachts leaving

Rod Heinkle's article in Jan YM is about this. Some marinas in July in the Duodecanese (can't spell) were half empty. Not only is the paper work driving them away, but apparently the conversion to € has casued restaurant prices to go up 33% and some shops by 80% - profitering is rife and everyone is voting with their feet (or props)

 

[MedMan]

We too have found Greek burocracy to be the worst in the Med. I do not object to paying for a three year permit but the requirement to stamp in and out of every port is onerous and quite nonsensical.

Our policy, having paid our dues and got our forms, is to go to the port office to stamp in only if told to do so by the Port Police. When this happens (not very often) we say we are leaving at 0400 and would they please stamp us out as well. This has worked nearly every time.

I have not heard of anyone being fined for failing to stamp in - if the Port Police come to you, you just say 'Fine - I'll go and do it now.' The problem comes if you stamp in but fail to stamp out. I have heard of several CA members who have been fined for this.

Our worst experience was trying to do the right thing and 'clearing in' when arriving in Corfu from Croatia. It was a nightmare. We were treated to an abuse of power, obstruction and delay that one tends to associate with Third World countries, not a grown-up member of the EC.

 

[Sybarite]

I suppose there is no argument against paperwork but I wonder if the charges could be challenged on the grounds that they infringe on the freedom of movement within member states of the EU??

 

[RichardPerou]

Just had this email from my insurance broker when I questioned a policy document where the values were expressed in drachma.

"Greek Translations

I thank you very much indeed for your e-mail dated 4th December addressed to SB. S is presently away from the office on vacation. I have again spoken to Underwriters concerning this - indeed I spoke to them earlier in the year about the same subject and I am afraid that at this stage, we can not change the monetary limits, presently shown in Drachma, as this particular requirement is enshrined in Greek Law and to change it to Euro could mean that the amounts that Greek Law will require would flat rate according the value of the Euro. I am led to believe that the matter is being discussed with the Greek Embassy by lawyers on behalf of the Insurance Market and as soon as the Greek Authorities advise us on the revised limits, we will then be able to change the Certificate. "

On the other hand it is the greatest cruising area I have ever been in.

 

[heerenleed]

They have been challenged

by the European Committee in Brussels recently, as you assumed it is in contradiction with the European freedom of traffic of persons and goods.
The outcome is unknown yet.

Even if it is declared illegal, how long will it take before the local Greek authorities know this? Or even if they know, will they stop bothering yachties for money?

Then again, friends of ours passed through Greece in November on their way to Turkey and tried to pay the fees, but never managed....

cheers


Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands

 

[davidbains]

MedMan, thanks for your comments. I too fell foul of the officials returning from Croatia.
Gouvia was full so I anchored outside in the bay and dinghied into the small port
office in the marina. They wouldn't stamp me in because I'd been to Croatia.
So I visited Corfu town harbour on my yacht Aqua Blue, but because it was now the
weekend I had to return twice before I got the port office to stamp the boat back
into Greece from Dubrovnik. Incidentally we came back in 35hrs Dubrovnik to
Erikoussa on a cold front!! I left the town immediately not realising I should have
got stamped out as well. After all you only visit to attend the office.
Then I left the boat in Gouvia for a month. I didn't revisit the police in Gouvia
since they hadn't wanted my papers the first time. A month later I flew back
and singlehanded down to anchor off Aktion on Sunday night before being
hauled into Preveza marine, on the monday morning and flew back from
Aktion airport without going to see the police in Preveza. The ferry no longer runs anyway
and one doesn't have a half day to waste in the office which runs in slow motion.
I think I've landed myself in a sort of no man's land with officialdom and am
expecting a fine when I go back next year. It's a real disappointment after five
years trouble free Greek cruising. I didn't really have time to get acquainted
with the new procedures last summer since I was bashing round the Adriatic.
Coming back to this time wasting paperwork was a culture shock.
How have you been finding it, and where do you keep your boat?
Reply to david.bains@virgin.net if you prefer.
David

 

[bryantee]

If they hauled you out at preveza marine ,the local port police know about you.They have to have permission to haul ,at one time the yard used to do this for you .now you have to go in person . you will have to go and get permission to launch,
You will need ALL your paper work.Registration,insurance 3rd Party (in Greek),Radio Licence. any bills to prove you have been in Greek waters.
Its getting more than the candle is worth.

 

[scarlett]

Yes it is a pain. I refused to pay in Argostoli and the boat was impounded. The answer is to pay when asked, smile because it is only a couple of pounds and forget it otherwise it will spoil your hoiday. When not asked, don't go looking for the Port Police. They will find you if they want to. They don't like asking visitors for two pounds and spend a quarter of an hour filling up forms. They have to do it because they are told to. Always arrive from somewhere without a Port Police facility when asked.

And mentally thank them for making Greece less crowded. Nidri down by at least 30% in 2002 against 2001.