catmandoo
Well-Known Member
are Greek Marina Costs for 2012/13 now going to be much more expensive ? Any body received an up to date quote recently ?
Is Turkey cheaper ?
Is Turkey cheaper ?
greek marina costs
- Thread starter catmandoo
- Start date
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
Prices in Messi are held at the same as last year. From what I've heard of other places, the same goes. Don't know about Turkish prices though.
affinite
Well-Known Member
I looked at the Turkish marina costs a few weeks ago and found them to be much higher than Im paying in Leros. Good news is that I'm only 49th on the waiting list for a berth in KOS 
catmandoo
Well-Known Member
I looked at the Turkish marina costs a few weeks ago and found them to be much higher than Im paying in Leros. Good news is that I'm only 49th on the waiting list for a berth in KOS
got a quote from Kos saying fully booked but for 180 days from November price for 8.5m by 4m catamaran in water would be 2718 euros Seemed quite steep for 6 months
jimbaerselman
Well-Known Member
VAT has gone up, and many Greek marinas quote ex-VAT prices, so be careful when comparing.
As ever though, the price depends more on the marina, its age, its facilities and its position. And the waiting list! These things control the demand, and thus the price. That trumps whether it's Greek or Turkish.
catmandoo
Well-Known Member
Am not at at home just now to check an earlier quote but the price i got from them for a year last december from June this year was around 2700 euros . The same price for 6 months now did in clude 16%VAT.
so in all cases lesson is book early and if you havent then its too late because by the time you get to the office the price has gone up or they are full up
little_roundtop
Well-Known Member
Agios Nikolaos marina on Crete has not increased their prices in four years. VAT has gone up as has been mentioned. We're quite close to Turkey, we have a fair number of ex-Turkey boats here this winter. Book VERY early if you want to come here next winter!
catmandoo
Well-Known Member
Talking last year to expats in marinas in Turkey trend seemed to be to get out of country or move further east because of high price increases and potential imposition of blue card system for black and grey water tanks in popular areas
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Prices in gouvia have been frozen for 2012 and 2013, but of course VAT has gone up. You still get your discounts for paying up front and CA membership though.
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
And RYA membership get you a discount in Gouvia as well - also in the other marinas owned by the same group - Lefkas and Piraeus.
little_roundtop
Well-Known Member
CA members get good discounts at most Greek marinas too.
jadwhite
New Member
23% discount being offered byMed Marina in Greece
Lefkas, Gouvia and Kalamata in Greece all offering 23% discount to anybody booking and paying in full for an annual berth by 30th June 2012. Water and elec included so attrative offer. I'll post this as a new entry too so all can see
Lefkas, Gouvia and Kalamata in Greece all offering 23% discount to anybody booking and paying in full for an annual berth by 30th June 2012. Water and elec included so attrative offer. I'll post this as a new entry too so all can see
sunshinesailing
Active Member
Greek Marinas 23% discount
It may not be prudent to pay in advance for marina berths in Greece at this time. Reuters shows that between May and October of this year Greece has an additional 14 billion in bonds to redeem. The funds required for these redemption are not covered in Bail Out #1 or Bail Out #2. Greece has to raise the funds for this internally which means VAT receipts. Is it a co-incidence that the 23% discount offered is the same as the 23% VAT rate? The Greeks will most likely continue to not remit VAT resulting in good deals for berth holders until the cards fall. You may benefit from paying for your berth later when New Drachma may be the official currency of Greece.
At some point we who pay tax in the EU will have to stop helping Greeks play their games or be stung by their default.
Smooth sailing
It may not be prudent to pay in advance for marina berths in Greece at this time. Reuters shows that between May and October of this year Greece has an additional 14 billion in bonds to redeem. The funds required for these redemption are not covered in Bail Out #1 or Bail Out #2. Greece has to raise the funds for this internally which means VAT receipts. Is it a co-incidence that the 23% discount offered is the same as the 23% VAT rate? The Greeks will most likely continue to not remit VAT resulting in good deals for berth holders until the cards fall. You may benefit from paying for your berth later when New Drachma may be the official currency of Greece.
At some point we who pay tax in the EU will have to stop helping Greeks play their games or be stung by their default.
Smooth sailing
Sybaris
Well-Known Member
Why would it not be prudent? Do you mean that the three marinas mentioned will not honor their contract, or go belly up?
Cheers,
Per
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
I think the point is that if Greece piles out of the euro, then you'll get a better deal in Drachma. Not too sure if that'll hold good, as I suspect the practice will be for marinas to set prices in euros but charge in Drachma at the daiy rate, like they do in Turkey.
sunshinesailing
Active Member
Greek Marinas 23% discount
Most cautious businessmen will have found a way to protect their businesses from a Greek default.
1.They will keep today only enough money in the business to meet day to day needs. All other monies will be out of reach of Greek banks and government, either under their pillows or out of the country. The Greeks have been doing this for years.
2. They will have a new company on the shelf with similar or the same ownership, shareholders and directors. Any Greek default will automatically trigger the ownership to change to the new company. This avoids the marina being responsible for any liabilities it has in euros to customers, suppliers, banks, etc.
3. They will have your money and possibly your boat. You will be asked for more money, either euros or Drachmas, and the reason given will be because of the Greek default. You will have no recourse in court as you will be chasing and insolvent company and you will not have sufficient knowledge of the Greek legal system to be successful.
Ask any marina that wants you to pay now, in advance, for a written guarantee that any subsequent company with any common ownership and/or directors will honor the contract without further payment. They will not give you this guarantee.
You risk a lot trying to save a little by paying for anything in advance in Greece now.
Smooth sailing.
Most cautious businessmen will have found a way to protect their businesses from a Greek default.
1.They will keep today only enough money in the business to meet day to day needs. All other monies will be out of reach of Greek banks and government, either under their pillows or out of the country. The Greeks have been doing this for years.
2. They will have a new company on the shelf with similar or the same ownership, shareholders and directors. Any Greek default will automatically trigger the ownership to change to the new company. This avoids the marina being responsible for any liabilities it has in euros to customers, suppliers, banks, etc.
3. They will have your money and possibly your boat. You will be asked for more money, either euros or Drachmas, and the reason given will be because of the Greek default. You will have no recourse in court as you will be chasing and insolvent company and you will not have sufficient knowledge of the Greek legal system to be successful.
Ask any marina that wants you to pay now, in advance, for a written guarantee that any subsequent company with any common ownership and/or directors will honor the contract without further payment. They will not give you this guarantee.
You risk a lot trying to save a little by paying for anything in advance in Greece now.
Smooth sailing.
nickf
Well-Known Member
I am not an expert in these matters but I am not sure it is as simple as that. My understanding is that most of the larger marinas (built with EEC grants) are leased from the Goverment on long term leases. Surely if they voluntarily fold they loose the lease to the marina and will not be able to just set up another company and carry on as usual ? Smaller privately owned yards are a different matter but my view is that these owners are part of the local community with many long term (and local) customers who they will have no desire to upset.
sunshinesailing
Active Member
Greek Marinas 23% discount
Quote "Surely if they voluntarily fold they loose the lease to the marina and will not be able to just set up another company and carry on as usual".
As long as lease payments are current they will be able to transfer the lease to the new company. The land or marina owners will have no reason to remove them, they need a marina operator in place to make the lease payments and facing a Greek default there won't be any others who will invest in it.
The marinas will have huge accounts payable and little cash, basically insolvent. The new company will have a clean sheet of paper with no requirements to pay back taxes, VAT or otherwise, or any suppliers. They new company will pay cash for supplies from the funds redirected earlier in part from those who paid in advance. All at a time when suppliers will be hungry for cash as their businesses will need it to survive.
The Greek bailouts are bad for Greece, they are good for the Euro zone as the longer default can be delayed the more time other countries have to cushion themselves from the fall. In this weeks G 20 summit European countries are already speaking about Greek bailout #3 and asking G 20 countries to help build the fund. They have been refused by most countries. It is interesting to read about the list of Greek government officials that have been moving large sums of personal monies out of Greece. And this by those negotiating bail outs on behalf of Greek citizens. Is the fox guarding the chickens and leaving them to pay the bill for generations to come? The current 2 bail outs total 240 billion divided by the 11 million Greek citizens is a debt of 22 thousand euros for each citizen. And not a penny set aside for recovery.
Smooth sailing.
Quote "Surely if they voluntarily fold they loose the lease to the marina and will not be able to just set up another company and carry on as usual".
As long as lease payments are current they will be able to transfer the lease to the new company. The land or marina owners will have no reason to remove them, they need a marina operator in place to make the lease payments and facing a Greek default there won't be any others who will invest in it.
The marinas will have huge accounts payable and little cash, basically insolvent. The new company will have a clean sheet of paper with no requirements to pay back taxes, VAT or otherwise, or any suppliers. They new company will pay cash for supplies from the funds redirected earlier in part from those who paid in advance. All at a time when suppliers will be hungry for cash as their businesses will need it to survive.
The Greek bailouts are bad for Greece, they are good for the Euro zone as the longer default can be delayed the more time other countries have to cushion themselves from the fall. In this weeks G 20 summit European countries are already speaking about Greek bailout #3 and asking G 20 countries to help build the fund. They have been refused by most countries. It is interesting to read about the list of Greek government officials that have been moving large sums of personal monies out of Greece. And this by those negotiating bail outs on behalf of Greek citizens. Is the fox guarding the chickens and leaving them to pay the bill for generations to come? The current 2 bail outs total 240 billion divided by the 11 million Greek citizens is a debt of 22 thousand euros for each citizen. And not a penny set aside for recovery.
Smooth sailing.
CharlesSwallow
Well-Known Member
As a long standing bertholder in Gouvia with a renewal date a month before this "offer" expires, I intend to get as much info "off the ground" as I can about this before reacting.
Funny that Planaco and Zea aren't mentioned though.
What say YOU, Cariadco, Scotty et al?
Chas
Funny that Planaco and Zea aren't mentioned though.
What say YOU, Cariadco, Scotty et al?
Chas
Last edited:
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Charles,
I am not renewing on 4th July, no way, I'm worried also and have plans to be sailing out of Lefkas, paying when I need to for a marina nerth there, until later in the year and see what happens. The foriegn office has been telling all brits in Greece to regoster with the local consulate, whats all that about Athens is in a right mess, goodness knows whats going to happen, but one thing is for sure, it's not if Greece defaults, it's when.
Cariadco is out of the water and he is now working in Oman, so has little if any choice right now. Boat is under guardianage and friends.
I am not renewing on 4th July, no way, I'm worried also and have plans to be sailing out of Lefkas, paying when I need to for a marina nerth there, until later in the year and see what happens. The foriegn office has been telling all brits in Greece to regoster with the local consulate, whats all that about Athens is in a right mess, goodness knows whats going to happen, but one thing is for sure, it's not if Greece defaults, it's when.
Cariadco is out of the water and he is now working in Oman, so has little if any choice right now. Boat is under guardianage and friends.