Greek cruising tax......again!

[ostra4]

Have just returned from a couple of weeks boat repairing on Lefkas and not heard any snippets about raising tax from any of the usual sources in that part of Greece.At the rate of one stamp a year in our Depka thing I'll be around 120 when my next is due which of course I'll be happy to pay .

 

[Tony Cross]

How come someone (person unknown at this stage) has managed to post on Noonsite some fairly up to date information about this (they even manage to provide links to the relevant documents / laws) and the CA who profess to be in close dialogue with the Greek Authorities know shall we say "not a lot".

To be fair the OP quoted a letter 'from their marina'. We don't know (yet) how their marina got to hear of it. And before you criticise people who are trying to help I would suggest that you bear two things in mind:

1. The CA exits for and acts for it's own members, anything that the CA chooses to make public it does so as a service to ALL sailors. If you're not a CA member then you really have no grounds for criticism.

2. Dealing with Greek bureaucracy is a thankless and frustrating task. I happen to have had some small insight into the dealings between the CA and the Greek Ministry of Shipping and Ministry of Finance and I defy anyone to make better or more effective progress.

I think we have all managed to worked out that the cost of a new DEPKA will be €50 and that you will need to get the new DEPKA when your old one needs a new stamp. However, it also seems to indicate that you will need a new DEPKA each time a vessel enters the country. Does that mean that unlike the old DEPKA you will have to cancel the DEPKA if you sail to another EU country such as Italy. Then on return purchase another DEPKA?

It has ALWAYS been the case that you need a new DEKPA every time you re-enter Greece. In practice however the port police have never enforced this law (mostly because they can't be bothered) although occasionally people are required to pay for a new DEKPA even though the old one is then reused.

This is nothing new.

 

[Chris_Robb]

To be fair the OP quoted a letter 'from their marina'. We don't know (yet) how their marina got to hear of it. And before you criticise people who are trying to help I would suggest that you bear two things in mind:

1. The CA exits for and acts for it's own members, anything that the CA chooses to make public it does so as a service to ALL sailors. If you're not a CA member then you really have no grounds for criticism.

2. Dealing with Greek bureaucracy is a thankless and frustrating task. I happen to have had some small insight into the dealings between the CA and the Greek Ministry of Shipping and Ministry of Finance and I defy anyone to make better or more effective progress.



It has ALWAYS been the case that you need a new DEKPA every time you re-enter Greece. In practice however the port police have never enforced this law (mostly because they can't be bothered) although occasionally people are required to pay for a new DEKPA even though the old one is then reused.

This is nothing new.

I am not sure how one spots a law being published in a system in Greek and with an unintelligible English translation. I think I would have to spend all my life on the search engines to have found out a change that is not really a major change and ones that is really not important in the scheme of things. No Matter! Thanks as always to Noonsite for the information.

The CA has had an uphill struggle since the change of Government. The current government is in a state of paralysis with no one even at the head of a major ministry being prepared to go off piste in discussing anything at all before the Ministry of Finance tells them they can. This is very frustrating. I know our report and objections to the new tax have been widely circulated in the ministry, so I can only hope that they might have been of influence.

Contact with the Min of Finance has been very difficult since we won our case against the Greek government on their illegal change in Temporary Import regulations through the EU complaints procedures. I think I have put some noses out of joint. We have been working hard to re establish these contacts - but it is a bit like savaging a dead sheep.

The CA works very hard at supporting our members and that work will continue. Remember that it is a club - run by volunteers so please don't kick volunteers too much!

 

[sailaboutvic]

To be fair the OP quoted a letter 'from their marina'. We don't know (yet) how their marina got to hear of it. And before you criticise people who are trying to help I would suggest that you bear two things in mind:

1. The CA exits for and acts for it's own members, anything that the CA chooses to make public it does so as a service to ALL sailors. If you're not a CA member then you really have no grounds for criticism.

2. Dealing with Greek bureaucracy is a thankless and frustrating task. I happen to have had some small insight into the dealings between the CA and the Greek Ministry of Shipping and Ministry of Finance and I defy anyone to make better or more effective progress.



It has ALWAYS been the case that you need a new DEKPA every time you re-enter Greece. In practice however the port police have never enforced this law (mostly because they can't be bothered) although occasionally people are required to pay for a new DEKPA even though the old one is then reused.

This is nothing new.

Tony ,
I almost sure miyagimoon is a member of the CA , so I guess he has a right to comment on the CA ,
unlike myself who isn't so I don't comment , ok maybe the odd remark now and then but it not normally a criticism .
Chris .
Any scrap of info you can throw our way regarding the tax is greatfully received by us all

 

[miyagimoon]

Tony ,
I almost sure miyagimoon is a member of the CA

Actually Vic I am not. I did not think I was criticising. merely stating that the CA did not appear to know a lot about it and that some unknown person published alot more info on Noonsite.

 

[Tony Cross]

Actually Vic I am not. I did not think I was criticising. merely stating that the CA did not appear to know a lot about it and that some unknown person published alot more info on Noonsite.

Apologies if I seemed a bit harsh.

The CA does it's best and has better contacts with the Greek government than many other sailing organisations, but as Chris has already mentioned it's extraordinarily difficult to get accurate and authoritative information from the Greek government at the moment. In addition, one needs to ask the right questions and it seems we didn't think to ask whether there was a new DEKPA because it's not something any of us expected.

Personally I'm puzzled by the issue of a new, numbered, DEKPA. When and if they introduce the new cruising tax there will be no need for a DEKPA at all, the cruising tax receipt will do all that a yearly stamp in a DEKPA book currently does. So why have they issued a new DEKPA? Could this possibly be a sign that the cruising tax is going to be seriously delayed and even cancelled (again)??

 

[sailaboutvic]

Apologies if I seemed a bit harsh.

The CA does it's best and has better contacts with the Greek government than many other sailing organisations, but as Chris has already mentioned it's extraordinarily difficult to get accurate and authoritative information from the Greek government at the moment. In addition, one needs to ask the right questions and it seems we didn't think to ask whether there was a new DEKPA because it's not something any of us expected.

Personally I'm puzzled by the issue of a new, numbered, DEKPA. When and if they introduce the new cruising tax there will be no need for a DEKPA at all, the cruising tax receipt will do all that a yearly stamp in a DEKPA book currently does. So why have they issued a new DEKPA? Could this possibly be a sign that the cruising tax is going to be seriously delayed and even cancelled (again)??

Or maybe it's just a way to get an extra bit of cash from boat owners

 

[Tony Cross]

Or maybe it's just a way to get an extra bit of cash from boat owners

Possibly, but I prefer to see the glass half full.

 

[vyv_cox]

Or maybe it's just a way to get an extra bit of cash from boat owners

I suspect a more simple explanation. We know that there has been a shortage of Dekpas for some time, particularly it seems in Corfu but reported elsewhere also. It looks like they have finally got around to printing some more. I find it very difficult to interpret the translated text but it still seems to me that it does not necessarily say that we must all turn in our old ones for new. Even if it does, it's a typical action by bureaucrats to insist that everyone has the new version (and the extra cash might well be an incentive to cover the printing costs)

 

[Chris_Robb]

I suspect a more simple explanation. We know that there has been a shortage of Dekpas for some time, particularly it seems in Corfu but reported elsewhere also. It looks like they have finally got around to printing some more. I find it very difficult to interpret the translated text but it still seems to me that it does not necessarily say that we must all turn in our old ones for new. Even if it does, it's a typical action by bureaucrats to insist that everyone has the new version (and the extra cash might well be an incentive to cover the printing costs)

The new DEKPA is prenumbered, which means that this is probably ending up on a computer with a unique reference. Perhaps the first stage of preparing for the tax? Turkey has its own unique registration system, so to me this would seem to be a logical progression, in a usable registration system of all vessels. Whether it is moved forward to the tax is anyone's guess.

 

[Chris_Robb]

There may be a problem to renewing your DEKPA.
The regulations in that unintelligible document require the passport of each part owner of the boat as detailed on the registration documents. That will effect those where not all the owners are present to get the new DEKPA. there may be many husband and wife combinations and boat shares where this will be a problem. I will be checking into Kos this year in June without my wife (part owner) so it will effect me.

The only solution I can think of is to get a Notarised copy of the other passports. I have a query out with the Min of Shipping.

 

[jordanbasset]

Or maybe it's just a way to get an extra bit of cash from boat owners

Double for you Vic

 

[sailaboutvic]

Double for you Vic

With one still on the hard I might get away with it ,
if we launch then we leave Greece straight away christine will sail pne and I the other to Malta in one go .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Double for you Vic

By the way . HB , I know C would had given you breakfast in bed , I now will stop at that

 

[jordanbasset]

By the way . HB , I know C would had given you breakfast in bed , I now will stop at that

 

[miyagimoon]

The Cruising Association reports!!

http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/changes-p...egistrations-greece-49965#HKoh1Xi2sM0sqslU.01

Got this link from Mrs Miyagi Moon who picked it up from Women Who Sail The Med Facebook Page.

 

[Mistroma]

The Cruising Association reports!!

http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/changes-p...egistrations-greece-49965#HKoh1Xi2sM0sqslU.01

Got this link from Mrs Miyagi Moon who picked it up from Women Who Sail The Med Facebook Page.

Thanks for the update. I see that only original documents are acceptable (registration, passports,insurance) when getting a new DEKPA,

e.g. "Original and valid insurance certificate, (photocopies will not be accepted)."

I wonder how they'll decide if my insurance is a photocopy or a printout of the document my insurance company email. Perhaps they will expect some paper with a watermark, better get started creating a suitable watermark. .

 

[macd]

I wonder how they'll decide if my insurance is a photocopy or a printout of the document my insurance company email. Perhaps they will expect some paper with a watermark, better get started creating a suitable watermark. .

My thoughts, too, Mistroma.

The 'original' of my insurance documents (and most other people's, too, I daresay) is a string of zeroes and ones on the insurer's computer. The string includes a representation of a signature on the insurer's behalf.

The insurer sends a digital original, by e-mail to my laptop. I print it out on ordinary A4 paper.
The insurer is also obliged to send me a hard copy, which they create by sending their original to their computer, which also uses bog-standard A4 paper.

What's the difference?

 

[BrianH]

The insurer sends a digital original, by e-mail to my laptop. I print it out on ordinary A4 paper.
The insurer is also obliged to send me a hard copy, which they create by sending their original to their computer, which also uses bog-standard A4 paper.

What's the difference?

Indeed, my insurer, Yachting24, the on-line arm of Pantaenius, just sends the pdf version to the in-box of my account on their web-site for me to print out.

Many years ago I once tended a copy of my AXA certificate to the HM on entering Croatia at Umag in Istria and he refused it by saying he must have the original blue insurance company copy in his hand before granting me entry. He was not to budge, even by me calling the Zürich head office and them offering to send a fax of the original.

Since then, after changing to Yachting24 and only receiving the digital version of the yearly copy, I have printed it on A5 blue card in emulation of the original AXA yearly certificate I used to receive. Probably no longer necessary now that the old curmudgeon has retired.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Indeed, my insurer, Yachting24, the on-line arm of Pantaenius, just sends the pdf version to the in-box of my account on their web-site for me to print out.

Many years ago I once tended a copy of my AXA certificate to the HM on entering Croatia at Umag in Istria and he refused it by saying he must have the original blue insurance company copy in his hand before granting me entry. He was not to budge, even by me calling the Zürich head office and them offering to send a fax of the original.

Since then, after changing to Yachting24 and only receiving the digital version of the yearly copy, I have printed it on A5 blue card in emulation of the original AXA yearly certificate I used to receive. Probably no longer necessary now that the old curmudgeon has retired.

Hi Barnacle
Over the last few years we check in different port , always using a copy print out , finger cross so far we had no problems .
We also with Pants .