Greek cruising tax......again!

sailaboutvic

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We have one boat on the hard in Greece , it going to be interesting to see when we go to launch this year or next if the Marina is going to insis that we get a new DEKPA before they launch us .
Since that days of having to get permission to haul out and in , I've need been ask to see the DEKPA by the yard .
Has anyone ?
 

BrianH

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Hi Barnacle
Over the last few years we check in different port , always using a copy print out , finger cross so far we had no problems .
We also with Pants .
Hi Vic, I'm sure you're right but old habits die hard and it makes little difference to what colour and size paper I print to. And by laminating the result it looks very official and authentic.

It was so frustrating to have to weigh up the alternatives the old so-and-so presented to me - either clear off back to Italy or get local third-party insurance from the conveniently-located insurance broker's office next door to the harbour office ... that he probably had a commission from ... I chose the latter.

Have a great summer's sailing 2017.
 

TRUNDLETRUC

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The information given by Chris Robb that passports of all the owners of a shared boat will be needed for a new DEKPA is quite worrying for myself, as our boat is shared between myself and my two sons. One is coming to the boat in July and the other is coming in August. I hope to launch in May! Some years we are never on the boat together. Will the originals be required or just copies? Or just passport numbers that can be checked via the foreign office?
Will they accept the fact that we have an old DEKPA?
Perhaps I should re-register my boat with the SSR just in my name?
When the information becomes available can someone please put it on this forum so that I can get prepared before I fly out in May. Thanks.
 

Chris_Robb

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Indeed, my insurer, Yachting24, the on-line arm of Pantaenius, just sends the pdf version to the in-box of my account on their web-site for me to print out.

Many years ago I once tended a copy of my AXA certificate to the HM on entering Croatia at Umag in Istria and he refused it by saying he must have the original blue insurance company copy in his hand before granting me entry. He was not to budge, even by me calling the Zürich head office and them offering to send a fax of the original.

Since then, after changing to Yachting24 and only receiving the digital version of the yearly copy, I have printed it on A5 blue card in emulation of the original AXA yearly certificate I used to receive. Probably no longer necessary now that the old curmudgeon has retired.
I have never yet seen a blue copy of insurance and I have always printed my own certs.
 

Chris_Robb

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The information given by Chris Robb that passports of all the owners of a shared boat will be needed for a new DEKPA is quite worrying for myself, as our boat is shared between myself and my two sons. One is coming to the boat in July and the other is coming in August. I hope to launch in May! Some years we are never on the boat together. Will the originals be required or just copies? Or just passport numbers that can be checked via the foreign office?
Will they accept the fact that we have an old DEKPA?
Perhaps I should re-register my boat with the SSR just in my name?
When the information becomes available can someone please put it on this forum so that I can get prepared before I fly out in May. Thanks.
I am hoping that a notarised copy of the passport will be acceptable. But who knows... If we get anywhere - we will let you know.
 

macd

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Barnacle: perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that an organisation still wedded to dusty Dickensian ledgers* has yet to arrive in the 21st Century.

* not to mention misogyny: in Preveza they point-blank refused to issue a DEKPA to my better half, who has her own sailing qualifications and is listed as joint owner on the Part 1.

Despite which...have a great summer '17 yourself.
 

BrianH

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I have never yet seen a blue copy of insurance and I have always printed my own certs.
Copy of my last AXA Winterthur certificate:

AXA.jpg

I still have a copy of the Croatian third-party policy I had to buy when a copy of the Swiss one was not accepted - it too is a similar pale blue as the AXA one.

Barnacle: perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that an organisation still wedded to dusty Dickensian ledgers* has yet to arrive in the 21st Century.
Mac, my experience was in Croatia where the high fees for visiting yachts has funded a modern computer network. When I arrive to enter irrespective of entry port, all my data from previous years is instantly available. That is why it is not advisable to fail to declare out in any year as one can be hit by a bill for the Sojourn tax through the entire absence period if ever entering again.

Greece could be studing the Croatian model in this regard with this new tax.
 

sailaboutvic

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Copy of my last AXA Winterthur certificate:

AXA.jpg

I still have a copy of the Croatian third-party policy I had to buy when a copy of the Swiss one was not accepted - it too is a similar pale blue as the AXA one.


Mac, my experience was in Croatia where the high fees for visiting yachts has funded a modern computer network. When I arrive to enter irrespective of entry port, all my data from previous years is instantly available. That is why it is not advisable to fail to declare out in any year as one can be hit by a bill for the Sojourn tax through the entire absence period if ever entering again.

Greece could be studing the Croatian model in this regard with this new tax.
Your a wise man regarding checking in and out and your quite correct about all previous data kept .
I given a couple of talks on Croatia in the last few years and each time people have stood up and completed about being fined for not checking in at the first port of call , I have to say all had been caught because they left their AIS on ,
Has I said to many in the pass , of your going to break the law , then don't hold up a sign saying so , turn the AIS off .
 

artemis07

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A few years ago I was paying the "launching tax" in a port police office when a "one tenth" owner arrived to complete the relevant paperwork. She was told that the other nine owners needed to be present before the paperwork could be completed! She attempted to explain the situation in words of one syllable or less. The officer was adamant that the other ten owners had to be present.

Luckily a more mature officer noticed what was going on and offered his assistance. He asked his colleague to pop next door and get form @&£):). He then quickly stamped the Depka and told her to leave the building immediately!

Happiness.
 

Chris_Robb

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Copy of my last AXA Winterthur certificate:

AXA.jpg

I still have a copy of the Croatian third-party policy I had to buy when a copy of the Swiss one was not accepted - it too is a similar pale blue as the AXA one.


Mac, my experience was in Croatia where the high fees for visiting yachts has funded a modern computer network. When I arrive to enter irrespective of entry port, all my data from previous years is instantly available. That is why it is not advisable to fail to declare out in any year as one can be hit by a bill for the Sojourn tax through the entire absence period if ever entering again.

Greece could be studing the Croatian model in this regard with this new tax.
Thanks for posting that. I have never had any comments about being printed on a white piece of A4 using my own John Bull printing kit.

I would agree that the new form is probably the input form for a full registration system for yachts.
In the past the greeks have tried to use the Vehicle registration system on Non EU boats which require TI (Temporary Import) tracking. Hence we think they changed the Customs law from 18 months to 6 months to conform to the search criteria of the vehicle registration system - where all non Greek vehicle are (should) be tracked!

So I think you are right - all yachts will be entered for a year to build up the database prior to the imposition of the tax - anyways that is how any sensible person would do it. So it will be important to properly exit Greece as a consequence.
 

Chris_Robb

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A few years ago I was paying the "launching tax" in a port police office when a "one tenth" owner arrived to complete the relevant paperwork. She was told that the other nine owners needed to be present before the paperwork could be completed! She attempted to explain the situation in words of one syllable or less. The officer was adamant that the other ten owners had to be present.

Luckily a more mature officer noticed what was going on and offered his assistance. He asked his colleague to pop next door and get form @&£):). He then quickly stamped the Depka and told her to leave the building immediately!

Happiness.

Well thats the point - when PP at a particular port get it wrong it can be very difficult to get any change. We had Kos recently telling Aussi boats that they should put their boats in Bond over the winter and therefore could not live on them during that time. That of course was the old law. The girl at the PP was helpfully going out of the way to warn the yachts in advance of the law! We have asked Head office to inform them - but cant get any feed back. There seems a culture there of burying everything - but I do think they actually deal with it.

This happened in Porto Heli where the PP started in 2015 to enforce a non existent tax. The problems all went away - but PP said it was caused by poor Greek to English communications. But they did something. By the way - has anyone encountered an other problems of aggression there last year?- they had a bad reputation before.
 

Tony Cross

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Regarding the wording about 'original' documents I rather think this is just the official law (or whatever that document was) sticking to the proper legal wording. I'm pretty sure that as long as your documents don't look obviously faked that nobody will worry.

The multi-passport requirement might be a problem for some though and I've no idea how one might get around that. It would be worth trying it with photocopies of the 'other' passports and seeing what happens......
 

macd

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The multi-passport requirement might be a problem for some though and I've no idea how one might get around that. It would be worth trying it with photocopies of the 'other' passports and seeing what happens......

A particularly odd issue (mentioned also by others), since EU nationals don't actually require a passport to travel within Schengen:
"If you are an EU national , you do not need to show your national ID card or passport when you are travelling from one border-free Schengen EU country to another...it is still always highly recommended to take a passport or ID card with you"

From: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm
 

Mistroma

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A particularly odd issue (mentioned also by others), since EU nationals don't actually require a passport to travel within Schengen:
"If you are an EU national , you do not need to show your national ID card or passport when you are travelling from one border-free Schengen EU country to another...it is still always highly recommended to take a passport or ID card with you"

From: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm

ID cards are not issued by every country, perhaps that's why they were not mentioned. It's probably just simpler to stick to requesting a passport as it is pretty universal.

Of course it could also be the case that ID cards would be acceptable. Still safer to turn up with a passport if you can't read Greek to check the translation. Not much of an alternative for UK citizens anyway as our ID card was scrapped back in 2011 and cannot be used to prove identity even if you still have one (not that I bothered to get one :D).
 
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BrianH

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Copy of my last AXA Winterthur certificate:

AXA.jpg
For those whose interest was raised by the above ... I know of at least one ... :)

The lack of ship's detail, only engine make and number, in the insurance certificate is due to two facts - 1. the base mooring is in Italy. 2. the boat is 9.4m LOA.

The language of the certificate reflects the country of berthing and also what is recorded on it. As only vessels of 10m and over can be entered on the official Italian register there can be no official number to record for anything smaller - Italy has no alternative to the main register similar to the UK's SSR. Therefore, formal identification of a boat under 10m is to use the official ministry certificate of any associated engine used by the vessel - all engines have such a certificate when fitted in Italy, even the smallest outboard is sold with such a document.

Croatia recognises the situation for the Italian armada that crosses the Adriatic every summer and in lieu of a certificate of registry they accept the engine registration. I don't know what happens when an Italian, engine-less sailing boat of less than 10m arrives to clear in.

My current Yachting24 insurance certificate now specifies the MCA Part I number to identify the boat.
 

Tony Cross

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A particularly odd issue (mentioned also by others), since EU nationals don't actually require a passport to travel within Schengen:
"If you are an EU national , you do not need to show your national ID card or passport when you are travelling from one border-free Schengen EU country to another...it is still always highly recommended to take a passport or ID card with you"

From: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm

I suspect, though I don't know, that they just want to see a recognised document that proves the identity of the named boat owners. As mentioned, the passport is pretty universal in that respect.
 

Chris_Robb

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I suspect, though I don't know, that they just want to see a recognised document that proves the identity of the named boat owners. As mentioned, the passport is pretty universal in that respect.
I suspect the whole point of the new system is to create a data base of all the yachts in greek waters. This is as much an anti terrorism thing as anything else. So hence the requirements for passport. But it is practically impossible - so the nearest you can get to complying is to get a NOTARISED copy of the passports and just file them on board.

We will be checking that this is acceptable - but I really cannot see any other practical way round it, and I can understand from an accuracy point of view why they want it.

Of course, having all the data on yachts collected during the course of this year, gives the Greeks a good launchpad for the tax:disgust:
 

jimbaerselman

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A particularly odd issue (mentioned also by others), since EU nationals don't actually require a passport to travel within Schengen:
"If you are an EU national , you do not need to show your national ID card or passport when you are travelling from one border-free Schengen EU country to another...it is still always highly recommended to take a passport or ID card with you"

From: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm

The wording of that europa page is misleading. Any person within Schengen must, at all times, be prepared to prove their identity. Acceptable documents are passports (with valid visas or stamps if required), Schengen ID cards, or papers issued to refugees.

The reason you don't have to "produce ID to cross borders" is to prevent individual countries creating informal barriers to free movement.
 
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