Greece more changes for non EU boats

[Tranona]

Because there isn't any such thing. The fishing vessel definition is there for the common Fisheries rules which treat EU registered vessels differently from non-EU.

 

[andrewAB]

So it seems I will retain VAT paid status with or without TL so long as I stay in EU waters. If I go to Turkey in a gews years and return soon after do I get RGR and retain VAT status? (looks to me that Turkey is part of customs union anyway so not sure how it works).

More or a concern is that while minding my own business at anchor a Port Police patrol will come and fine me 500 euro for being a 3rd country flag without TL.

So do I need go to customs in Preveza and get a TL? Where from: Aktio, where to: anchorages around the place then back to Aktio in a month. Every 18 months sail 12 miles toward nowhere? (or pop to Albania).

I had hope that Greece would follow the CA suggestion of UTL for VAT paid 3td country boats. Is that totally dead now?

BTW I keep a current crew list aboard.
Thanks Andrew

 

[Bouba]

I would imagine that any port authority would take the common sense definition of EU boat as being a boat registered in an EU state. That doesn’t mean other boats are illegal but you might need a court case to expand the definition

 

[AndrewB]

Presumably VAT paid in UK prior to Brexit = VAT paid in EU?

 

[BoatBouy]

Presumably VAT paid in UK prior to Brexit = VAT paid in EU?

Only if the boat was in the EU at the end of the transition period is my understanding. Boats in the UK are no longer EU VAT paid and you would need to do RCD certification and pay VAT if you take the boat to the EU and keep it there beyond the 18 month temporary import period.

 

[AndrewB]

Only if the boat was in the EU at the end of the transition period is my understanding. Boats in the UK are no longer EU VAT paid and you would need to do RCD certification and pay VAT if you take the boat to the EU and keep it there beyond the 18 month temporary import period.

Thanks for that. My British registered yacht is in the limbo regarding VAT. Built in the UK in 1988, the original invoice is missing and unrecoverable, though almost certainly VAT must have been paid. UK originated VAT receipts exist for all the equipment on board: sails, engine, dinghy, liferaft, outboard, rigging, electronics etc. It was sailed to, and has been kept in Greece almost since new, including on the transition date, for which I have formal proof.

For that reason I do not carry a Transit Log, and have made the assumption the yacht is not subject to temporary import regulations.

In the past, I've produced an old T2L if questioned about VAT when visiting EU ports - not proof of course, but prior to Brexit customs officials waved it through as really they were not bothered about an old yacht.

So, how to cope from now on? If I do apply for a TL, perhaps some officials would assume the 18 month rule then applies. And of course I do not want the hassle it implies. Should I offer to pay VAT in Greece - would that settle the matter for a UK registered yacht? During 2022 I've been tiptoeing around, avoiding harbours with active port police/customs except for Corfu and Levkas, in both of which marina staff have told me there is "no problem" for a British yacht established in Greece. The same was true in three Italian ports I visited this year. But I need a definitive ruling that all officials (including those sticklers in Kalamata and Patras) will abide by, before deciding the correct course of action.

 

[Hooligan]

I am in Lefkas Marina. British flagged boat. The boat was in the Eu, not Greece, on D day and I have proof of that from the marina she was residing at midnight. I have never bothered with any paperwork in Greece as I have always assumed that as the boat is technically EU VAT paid where it is flagged is irrelevant. The marina did not ask and in over two years in the Ionian we have never been asked once except a marine police boat who came by this year whilst we were on anchor near Kalamata. We said the boat’s home port was Lefkas and that was it, they went away. We did get a T2L as many did prior to Brexit date so with regard to the above I would have thought that that remains sufficient to demonstrate VAT was paid and then all you should need is proof the boat was in the EU on Brexit day. Personally I would keep doing what you do. Re flagging the boat makes no sense as they would I assume want proof of VAT having been paid which in essence means that if VAT was paid in the U.K. it would only count were you to prove that the boat was in the EU on Dec 31 2020. Ergo how the boat is flagged seems irrelevant.

 

[Graham376]

So, how to cope from now on? If I do apply for a TL, perhaps some officials would assume the 18 month rule then applies. And of course I do not want the hassle it implies. Should I offer to pay VAT in Greece - would that settle the matter for a UK registered yacht? During 2022 I've been tiptoeing around, avoiding harbours with active port police/customs except for Corfu and Levkas, in both of which marina staff have told me there is "no problem" for a British yacht established in Greece. The same was true in three Italian ports I visited this year. But I need a definitive ruling that all officials (including those sticklers in Kalamata and Patras) will abide by, before deciding the correct course of action.

The RYA says old T2Ls are no longer valid but I'm certainly not following their advice about visiting any customs office in Portugal or elsewhere, that would be inviting trouble.

The Union Customs Code Implementing Regulation (EU) 2015/2447 (Article 199) details means of proving the customs status of Union goods proof of Union status, which might include the invoice or a T2L. Whilst the UK was a member of the EU, it was possible to obtain a retrospective T2L from HMRC. According to the European Commission documentation such as a T2L or a customs opinion letter, issued by the UK before the end of the Brexit transition period, is no longer valid in the EU. The European Commission advised that "for a boat lying in the EU at the end of the transition period, the person concerned needs to submit a new request to obtain a proof of Union status to one of the Customs authorities in the EU".

 

[AndrewB]

The RYA says old T2Ls are no longer valid but I'm certainly not following their advice about visiting any customs office in Portugal or elsewhere, that would be inviting trouble.

I don't believe T2L's were ever valid as proof of VAT status, they just pinned tax responsibility on the issuing country. Certainly it's no help now to have one issued in Britain, whether before or after Brexit.

For those of us with older yachts established in Europe but without proof of VAT paid, the only real solution is to pay VAT (again) at some point. Greeks are notoriously tax avoiders, and I'm joining their ranks for the moment, until it becomes clear that there are customs valuers prepared to be realistic, and when the EU advice you quote is confirmed as meaning exemption from Greek Transit Log requirements for a British registered boat. In the mean time, like you, I will not be knocking on customs office doors.

 

[BoatBouy]

Sounds like the boat is VAT paid and in free circulation under EU customs code. You just lack the original invoice to confirm it.

When I was in France in 2014 with my father and his old pre VAT era boat we got visited by French Customs and paperwork looked over and off they went to the next boat. The next boat was a British flagged expensive 50ft+ gas guzzler and they were with him for over an hour.

My view is they are unlikely to be interested in an older boat and if they do then make lots of protestations that your boat is indeed VAT paid. The likelihood is they are looking for an easy case on a shiny new expensive boat not a load of hassle with someone loudly protesting that their old boat is VAT paid anyway.

 

[Bouba]

Sounds like the boat is VAT paid and in free circulation under EU customs code. You just lack the original invoice to confirm it.

When I was in France in 2014 with my father and his old pre VAT era boat we got visited by French Customs and paperwork looked over and off they went to the next boat. The next boat was a British flagged expensive 50ft+ gas guzzler and they were with him for over an hour.

My view is they are unlikely to be interested in an older boat and if they do then make lots of protestations that your boat is indeed VAT paid. The likelihood is they are looking for an easy case on a shiny new expensive boat not a load of hassle with someone loudly protesting that their old boat is VAT paid anyway.

I’ve been stopped a few times...my boat is neither large nor ostentatious, it’s also got French registration and all times I was stopped within sight of my home port. All papers were checked, including identification, and photographed. Getting stopped can be random....it can be a training exercise....the busier the time of year the less likely you will be stopped....

 

[westernman]

I’ve been stopped a few times...my boat is neither large nor ostentatious, it’s also got French registration and all times I was stopped within sight of my home port. All papers were checked, including identification, and photographed. Getting stopped can be random....it can be a training exercise....the busier the time of year the less likely you will be stopped....

I have never been stopped - neither in France nor Spain. I fly a Red Ensign and the right courtesy flag (most of the time, sometimes I forget to change it when crossing the French/Spanish border).

I came very close to ramming a French "Douane" cutter which was patrolling together with an almost identical Spanish customs cutter at the entrance to Colliure.