Non EU spouse checking out?

[goeasy123]

Does a non-EU family member of an EU citizen have to check in and out and get a stamp in their passport if entering or leaving EU waters by boat? I'm not looking for opinion or anecedotal experience. What is the actual law, quoted with references?

We have an EU boat, an EU skipper with a 3rd country spouse. The spouse has family member rights of free movement in and out of the EU. EU boats with EU citizens do not need to check in and out of EU waters. Entry and exit is implied by simply crossing the external sea border.

According to front line staff in Spain and France 'full rights' as a qualifying family member means they don't have to visit immigration at all.

 

[Dilemma]

Does a non-EU family member of an EU citizen have to check in and out and get a stamp in their passport if entering or leaving EU waters by boat? I'm not looking for opinion or anecedotal experience. What is the actual law, quoted with references?

We have an EU boat, an EU skipper with a 3rd country spouse. The spouse has family member rights of free movement in and out of the EU. EU boats with EU citizens do not need to check in and out of EU waters. Entry and exit is implied by simply crossing the external sea border.

According to front line staff in Spain and France 'full rights' as a qualifying family member means they don't have to visit immigration at all.

Try the EU Practical Handbook for Border Guards: https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2022-11/Practical handbook for border guards_en.pdf

 

[MikeBz]

I’d like to know the real answer to that too. I am entitled to an EU passport due to my father having been born in NI, but my wife isn’t.

 

[ithet]

Interested as that is also my understanding of the situation when travelling together as per the link in Dilemma's post (page 20).


Directive 2004/38/EC grants spouses the same freedom of movement as their EU citizen partner.

It states: “The right of all Union citizens to move and reside freely within the territory of the member states should, if it is to be exercised under objective conditions of freedom and dignity, be also granted to their family members, irrespective of nationality.”

 

[jlavery]

Try the EU Practical Handbook for Border Guards: https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2022-11/Practical handbook for border guards_en.pdf

That document is  very useful. I think the "definitions" section (page 20?) is clear:

"6. ‘Persons enjoying the right of free movement under Union law’
14 are nationals of
EU Member States, EEA countries and Switzerland, as well as members of their
family, regardless of their nationality accompanying or joining them.

7. ‘Members of the family of EU, EEA or CH citizens enjoying the right of free
movement under Union law’
15 are, irrespective of their nationality:
 the spouse (independently of the sex of the spouse16) and, if this is contracted on
the basis of the legislation of an EU or Schengen State and recognised by the
legislation of the host EU or Schengen State as equivalent to marriage, the
partner with whom the EU/EEA/CH citizen has contracted a registered
partnership;"

So I think that clearly states that a non EU spouse travelling with an EU citizen does not have to check in or out.

If correct, good news for me and my non-EU wife.

 

[MikeBz]

I wonder if this is understood/implemented by all border controls? And whether that means as a couple you can use the EU passport holders’ lane?

 

[jlavery]

I wonder if this is understood/implemented by all border controls? And whether that means as a couple you can use the EU passport holders’ lane?

Your first sentence hits the nail on the head.

My wife is now off on an Internet search on this topic and is seeing stuff about residency. But unless I'm missing something, the above definitions and document do not refer to residency, just citizenship.

 

[goeasy123]

Your first sentence hits the nail on the head.

My wife is now off on an Internet search on this topic and is seeing stuff about residency. But unless I'm missing something, the above definitions and document do not refer to residency, just citizenship.

The question is not about border control points or passport lanes. It's specifically about entering and leaving EU waters by boat. If one goes through an external control point the EU puts an onus on the country to check all passports for various things and for the 3rd county family member to have their passport stamped (at the country's/border controls discretion).

However, if your sailing in or out on you're EU boat with everyone on board enjoying freedom of movement rights do you have to attend immigration control? Shortly after the Brexit transition period the Spanish announced that EU boats with any 3rd country citizens on board (spouse or not) had to enter Spain through an official port of entry. This was challenged and subsequently dropped.

Try the EU Practical Handbook for Border Guards: https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2022-11/Practical handbook for border guards_en.pdf

The handbook doesn't help. It's guidance for border guards at control points. If you enter or leave by EU boat you don't encounter a border guard. If you were to apply the content of the handbook to sailing EU citizen they would not be able to sail in or out of EU waters or between many EU countries without attending at a port of entry every time.

 

[KompetentKrew]

According to front line staff in Spain and France 'full rights' as a qualifying family member means they don't have to visit immigration at all.

Not only does that sound right and reasonable to me but, practically speaking, I would also be perfectly happy to go along with that. Why do you want to argue with the douane?

You can get everything right and still be in the wrong. You get all the right stamps in your passport, dot all the i's, cross all the t's, and customs say you're wrong - you can't do anything about it. In theory, maybe you could appeal or take it to a judge, but in practice this is too expensive or results in unacceptable delays (months! at least!) When customs say you're in the wrong, you just have to suck it up.

If the douane tell you to go ahead then go ahead. If you're challenged on it at a later date then just say, "they told me so". On average. the times you get it wrong will average out with the times you get it right.

 

[ithet]

Your first sentence hits the nail on the head.

My wife is now off on an Internet search on this topic and is seeing stuff about residency. But unless I'm missing something, the above definitions and document do not refer to residency, just citizenship.

Most of the stuff on the internet refers to non EU partners joining their EU spouse. That is why I stressed the travelling together previously.

 

[Graham376]

I'm married to an EU citizen and when travelling I still have to produce passport to book in and out when entering/leaving EU territory but not between EU countries. This applies whether travelling in her company or not. Having residency in my own right just means my passport doesn't get stamped.

 

[ithet]

I'm married to an EU citizen and when travelling I still have to produce passport and book in and out when entering/leaving EU territory but not between EU countries. This applies whether travelling in her company or not. Having residency in my own right just means my passport doesn't get stamped.

What do you mean by "book in and out"?

 

[Graham376]

What do you mean by "book in and out"?

Register entering and leaving by presenting passport.

P.S. When passport is scanned, border officer's display shows dates of previous visits and length of stay.

 

[Alicatt]

I'm married to an EU citizen and when travelling I still have to produce passport to book in and out when entering/leaving EU territory but not between EU countries. This applies whether travelling in her company or not. Having residency in my own right just means my passport doesn't get stamped.

It's the same for me, I have to show my residency card along with my UK passport entering or leaving the EU, going between countries within the Schengen area I do not have to show my passport or residency card unless I'm flying when everyone needs to show their ID/Residency/passport.
My wife is an EU citizen and she has to show ID entering the EU and her ID and Passport when entering the UK, I have to show both either way as I'm still a UK citizen residing in the EU.

Only once since the B word happened did I get my passport stamped on the way out of The Netherlands but he corrected himself and defaced the stamp in my passport when he realised he had made a mistake in stamping it.
This was leaving by the ferry (a boat?) in Ijmuden

 

[goeasy123]

I'm married to an EU citizen and when travelling I still have to produce passport to book in and out when entering/leaving EU territory but not between EU countries. This applies whether travelling in her company or not. Having residency in my own right just means my passport doesn't get stamped.

It's the same for me, I have to show my residency card along with my UK passport entering or leaving the EU, going between countries within the Schengen area I do not have to show my passport or residency card unless I'm flying when everyone needs to show their ID/Residency/passport.
My wife is an EU citizen and she has to show ID entering the EU and her ID and Passport when entering the UK, I have to show both either way as I'm still a UK citizen residing in the EU.

Only once since the B word happened did I get my passport stamped on the way out of The Netherlands but he corrected himself and defaced the stamp in my passport when he realised he had made a mistake in stamping it.

This is evidently not the case if you're entering or leaving on an EU boat as EU citizen and non EU spouse. As I said above I'm looking for the source law that supports this.... not anecdotal evidence or opinion.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Register entering and leaving by presenting passport.

P.S. When passport is scanned, border officer's display shows dates of previous visits and length of stay.

And, as my late wife found, a failure to check out will result in a apparent overstay next time you fly in or out! She travelled on a BN(O) passport, which is not an EU passport, and on one departure from Germany, she was stopped and questioned because she'd somehow failed to be checked out on a previous visit - probably because we travelled by Eurostar, where passport checks are fairly cursory, and no doubt her passport was assumed to be a British one (they're almost identical). She was travelling with me, at the time and EU citizen. Fortunately she was able to prove she hadn't overstayed.

Bottom line is that unless you never fly to or from Europe, ensure that every check in is matched by a check out . Airport passport checks will detect discrepancies.

 

[Graham376]

This is evidently not the case if you're entering or leaving on an EU boat as EU citizen and non EU spouse. As I said above I'm looking for the source law that supports this.... not anecdotal evidence or opinion.

Well, it certainly happened to us when sailing to/from EU. Both passports had to be shown.

 

[Alicatt]

And, as my late wife found, a failure to check out will result in a apparent overstay next time you fly in or out! She travelled on a BN(O) passport, which is not an EU passport, and on one departure from Germany, she was stopped and questioned because she'd somehow failed to be checked out on a previous visit - probably because we travelled by Eurostar, where passport checks are fairly cursory, and no doubt her passport was assumed to be a British one (they're almost identical). She was travelling with me, at the time and EU citizen. Fortunately she was able to prove she hadn't overstayed.

Bottom line is that unless you never fly to or from Europe, ensure that every check in is matched by a check out . Airport passport checks will detect discrepancies.

Until recently (maybe the last 18 months) the passports and IDs were only cursorily checked at Ijmuden, now they are scanned and the entering and leaving takes a few minutes longer now

 

[goeasy123]

Well, it certainly happened to us when sailing to/from EU. Both passports had to be shown.

...shown to whom, when and under what condidtions. For example, if as an EU citizen you sail to Spain or Portugal from Morocco there is no requirement to check in. There is no mandate to attend customs or immigration or enter through an official port of entry.

 

[Graham376]

...shown to whom, when and under what condidtions. For example, if as an EU citizen you sail to Spain or Portugal from Morocco there is no requirement to check in. There is no mandate to attend customs or immigration or enter through an official port of entry.

I think if you look at EU law, in common with other countries, there is a requirement for everyone to check in and out of the territory. Certainly one time we were boarded by Spanish customs on return from Smir (Morocco), we both had to produce all documents.

When entering any Spanish or Portuguese marina, they have to sent a copy of your details and passports to authorities.

Why do you think folks on pleasure boats should be treated differently to everyone else? EES will track everyone entering and leaving EU, whichever country they arrive in or depart from.

Spain's entry requirements here -

Nationals of third States who travel to Spain for stays of up to 90 days (during any period of 180 days) for tourism, business, family visits, medical treatment, study, non-work internships or volunteer activities with a duration not exceeding 3 months, or for other non-gainful activities, must meet the entry conditions established in the Schengen Borders Code.

Entry requirements ​

• Enter via an authorised border-crossing point.
• Present proof of identity and a valid travel document.
• Present the corresponding visa if required, according to nationality.
• Provide evidence of meeting the conditions for the proposed stay and of possessing sufficient financial resources.
• Not be subject to a ban on entering Spain.