Grab bags?

[Robin]

OK so who has one, where is it and what's in it?

We bought one of those yellow plastic rollup drybags to use, then scratched our heads for maybe 3 years deciding what goes in it, finally got some sort of act together this year after reading of the big Moody run down in the channel...

Ours has:-

Handheld VHF in waterproof Aquasac, with 2 spare AA battery packs
2 x Personal beacon transmitters 121.5 (if not in use)
2 bottles of water
Stugeron tablets, small first aid kit.
Kendal mint cake/Mars Bars
Aluminium foil 'space' blankets
Signal mirror (AOL CD!)
S/S multitool with knife, pliers, etc
Waterproof Maglite torch
Personal strobe lights (if not in use)
Waterproof polybag with passports, wallets with money/credit cards, car & housekeys

Ours is kept below normally (some items of course are in regular use) but moved to a cockpit locker when we are on passage. Next to it is a waterproof polybottle with our flare kit.

I have no doubt we will revise or add to the content, probably after reading replies to this post. The original thinking was if in a sudden catastrophic situation, like a rundown or fire, we could hopefully have time to launch the liferaft from it's cradle on the pushpit, grab the flare kit and grab bag from the cockpit locker and go. If time allows, there are more flares and lots of other things to take from down below, but this is the immediate cut and run bag.






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[Little_Russel]

Spare pair of glasses if you use them. Head torch.

<hr width=100% size=1>Sail the Se7en seas...

 

[johna]

Robin

I would add a handheld GPS and ships papers.
John

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[scarlett]

Sprouts

And hope you never see them. Merry Christmas.

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[muchy_]

Shades

Spare pair of Raybans so you look cool when rescued ;-)

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[Robin]

Hi John

Yes I would add a handheld GPS if I had one, but don't as yet. The Ships papers are a good idea too, I had thought of that but for normal (ie non transat or whatever) use decided against as I could get copies easily enough, plus space in the bag was getting a bit tight and I wanted to keep it so there was enough reserve air in it to float.

I did forget too to say that both our mobile phones also go in this first choice bag.

Its a difficult one this because there are lots of things I would want to try and take given the chance and enough time, but the catastrophic scenario of a major rundown or explosion/fire means really it has got to be immediately to hand, hence this bag and a RORC flare pack together in the locker.

Merry Christmas again

Robin




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[Robin]

Re: Shades

Joking apart yes the sunglasses are a good idea!

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[webcraft]

Re: handheld GPS

No hand-held GPS??

I wouldn't dream of being on a boat without at least two GPS sets, three on a serious offshore or ocean passage, with the third in a waterproof container with several sets of spare batteries.

Hand held GPS sets are so cheap that it seems madness not to have at least one on board in case the main set goes down. Or are you in regular practice with the sextant and/or in regular practice at recording DR and EPs? Even if you are, why risk losing the ship for a hap'orth of electronics?

- N



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[MainlySteam]

In answer to your questions:

We have one (nice solid one with a gasketed screw on lid and rope lanyard).

Is under the bunk in the main cabin beside the companionway.

It is used to store old flares /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif.

John

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[Robin]

Re: handheld GPS

<<I wouldn't dream of being on a boat without at least two GPS sets, three on a serious offshore or ocean passage, with the third in a waterproof container with several sets of spare batteries.

Hand held GPS sets are so cheap that it seems madness not to have at least one on board in case the main set goes down. Or are you in regular practice with the sextant and/or in regular practice at recording DR and EPs? Even if you are, why risk losing the ship for a hap'orth of electronics?>>

We have three fixed GPS sets on board. We have a WAAS/EGNOS GPS linked to a 10" plotter, a standard GPS linked to a Yeoman plotter but also via a changeover switch to the 10" plotter, both of these are from sevice battery bank No 1. We then have a 5" plotter in the cockpit with it's own built in WAAS/EGNOS GPS, this one runs from an entirely separate service battery bank No 2.

Actually we do have a sextant on board, plus a laptop with astro programs and a Casio programable calculator also with all the almanac/tables and astro programs. We also carry the astro tables in book form. Our Instrument systems and Yeoman plotter both have manual dead reckoning input facilities. SWMBO passed her YM (Offshore) shorebased nav classes top of the class 10 years ago, I did mine 28 years ago but did many miles before and since using old fashioned or proper navigation methods.

Rather more than a hap'orth of electronics! If we had a handheld it would be solely for grab bag use but it would be icing on the cake.

Maybe Santa will bring me one?

Robin



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[johna]

Re: handheld GPS

Robin

Not surprising that you can get to within 10ft with a 3 iron with all those electronics!!

I think the handheld GPS is much more than the icing on the cake it is a must for the grab bag. Not sure how useful the mobiles would be at sea as it is diificult to get a signal on land along the Dorset coast!!

John

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[webcraft]

Re: handheld GPS

I hope Santa has input your chimney as a waypoint in his in-sleigh GPS navigation system and that you get what you want.

Merry Christmas,

Nick

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[MainlySteam]

Re: handheld GPS

Could someone enlighten me as to the use of having a handheld GPS in a grab bag?

I would have thought that if one had grabbed one's grab bag, jumped into the liferaft and started floating around there was not much navigating left to do. Also, not much chance of talking to anyone as to where you are, according to the GPS, either (maybe a plane on the VHF but in that case one can see them, or maybe if close to shore a shore station, but one would hope you already knew where you were when one sank?)?

Maybe I am missing something?

John

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[Robin]

Re: handheld GPS

SWMBO read that last post and said neigh chance Rudolph or something like that anyway....

Robin

(must learn how to add pics & smilies)

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[alant]

Re: Grab bags? ORC Specs

Following may be of interest & provoke a few thoughts over Xmas!
"The ORC recommends that a "grab bag" accompanies each liferaft. The following contents are recommended and should be appropriately packed and waterproofed (packing should be openable by wet fingers without tools):

spare sea anchor (drogue) and line for the liferaft
two safety tin openers
waterproof hand-held VHF transceiver
waterproof hand-held GPS
EPIRB for 406MHz ("GPIRB" type, or INMARSAT "E" -which is also of the "GPIRB" type- recommended)
a first aid kit
one plastic drinking vessel graduated in 10, 20 and 50 cubic cm
two or more "cyalume" sticks
two watertight floating flashlights or torches
one daylight signalling mirror and one signalling whistle
at least two red parachute flares and three red hand flares
non-thirst provoking rations and barley sugar or equivalent
watertight receptacles containing fresh water (at least half a litre per person)
nylon string, polythene bags, seasickness tablets
an SART (Search and Rescue Transponder beacon) is worth considering. This device creates a distinctive "distress" signal on commercial ships 9GHz radar screens."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ditch kit should contain items that allow survival from the moment the raft is jettisoned to potentially a period of several months. The short-term concerns, calculated in minutes and hours, deal with injuries sustained during abandon-ship procedures, hypothermia, and the ability to keep the raft afloat. Signaling devices can be useful immediately or long-term; they represent the capacity to signal one’s presence to potential rescuers. Medium-term survival, calculated over a few days, depends on the ability to collect water. Finally, long-term survival, measured in days to months, is based on the potential to gather food.

A. Short-Term Survival (Minutes to Hours)

1) Thermal protective aids such as space blankets or survival bags that consist of compact aluminized sheets of heat-reflective material shaped into a suit or a mummy-bag.
2) Chemical heat packs, either four six-hour units or two 20-hour units per crew, to warm crew
3) Self-inflating foam pad or air mattress, especially if the raft has no insulated double floor, for cushioning and added insulation
4) Wool and rubber work gloves and watch cap
5) Minimal first-aid kit including instruction manual, sterile bandages, sutures, seasickness medication (tablets, suppositories, or injectables), pain killers, aspirin for heart attacks, surgeon’s tape, antibiotics, enema sack for rehydration, sun screen, burn cream, petroleum jelly (also for lubricating metal), and inflatable splints.
6) Repair kit with small tubes of silicon seal that cures under water or similar “good goop.” For inflatables, include a spare air pump, clamps (assorted sizes of cymbal type), heavy needles and sail twine, spare canopy and raft material, and glue patches. For rigid dinghies, include underwater epoxy and glass and fabric for making and repairing the canopy 200 feet of 3/16-inch line and 100 feet of 1/4-inch line, duct tape, spare line for lashings, securing items, and improvising.
7) Tools: sheath knife, multitool or Swiss Army knife, several flat blades, file, sharpening stone, tube of oil.
8) Two 1/8- by 8- by 12-inch marine-plywood cutting boards to protect the raft floor from puncture; one can be marked and used as a sextant
9) Two sponges
10) Plastic sacks and ties
11) Lights: small diving flashlights, chemical light sticks
12) Reflective tape attached to the outside of raft

B. Short to Medium-Term Survival (Hours to Days)

1) Secondary EPIRB
2) Waterproof handheld VHF
3) Six SOLAS-approved parachute flares or 12 non-SOLAS parachutes, three handheld red flares, and two orange smoke flares. Metal flare guns may be prone to rust, so carry oil
4) Signaling mirror
5) Navigation kit: survival manual, pencils, pads of paper, waterproofed pilot chart for the ocean traveled, compass, waterproof watch, plastic protractor
6) Parafoil signaling kite that’s compact and light and may be flown in moderate winds, providing some propulsion and extending visibility, even at night (e.g., the Sky-Alert Rescue Kite by Davis Instruments, 510-732-9229)
7) Backup improved Icelandic-style sea anchor (many models are available) that’s a tapered cone with mesh or straps around bridle to prevent fouling, with a strong swivel and rode

C. Medium-Term Survival (Days to Weeks)

1) Reverse-osmosis watermaker equivalent to Survivor 06 (Survivor 35 is preferred for a crew of six or more)
2) Water in pouches or cans; 16 ounces per person for immediate use
3) Transparent biking bottle with secure cap to help rationing
4) Other bags and plastic sheets for water collection
5) Siphon/enema tubing to transfer water between containers or help survivors absorb water rectally
6) Dried fruit and chocolate

D. Long-Term Survival (Weeks to Months)

1) Survival ship’s biscuits
2) Multiple vitamins
3) Fishing kit: small trident and handle, large gaff or Hawaiian sling, 200 feet of 50-pound test (natural cod line shrinks as it dries, good for small lashings), 20 feet of heavy-wire leader, hooks from trout-size to 4-inch, various jigs and lures, sinkers
4) Small plankton net or stockings with stiff metal ring to keep waist open to troll at night (you may be able to live off plankton, but beware of jellyfish)

E. Miscellaneous

1) Photocopies of all essential crew documents, including passports and boat documentation to aid you when reaching land. (It’s advisable to file additional copies ashore along with a list of safety equipment and a float plan.)
2) Shore survival items in case you land in an uninhabited area: waterproof matches, flint, wire saw.
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[alant]

Re: Grab bags? ORC Specs

Following may be of interest & provoke a few thoughts over Xmas!
"The ORC recommends that a "grab bag" accompanies each liferaft. The following contents are recommended and should be appropriately packed and waterproofed (packing should be openable by wet fingers without tools):

spare sea anchor (drogue) and line for the liferaft
two safety tin openers
waterproof hand-held VHF transceiver
waterproof hand-held GPS
EPIRB for 406MHz ("GPIRB" type, or INMARSAT "E" -which is also of the "GPIRB" type- recommended)
a first aid kit
one plastic drinking vessel graduated in 10, 20 and 50 cubic cm
two or more "cyalume" sticks
two watertight floating flashlights or torches
one daylight signalling mirror and one signalling whistle
at least two red parachute flares and three red hand flares
non-thirst provoking rations and barley sugar or equivalent
watertight receptacles containing fresh water (at least half a litre per person)
nylon string, polythene bags, seasickness tablets
an SART (Search and Rescue Transponder beacon) is worth considering. This device creates a distinctive "distress" signal on commercial ships 9GHz radar screens."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ditch kit should contain items that allow survival from the moment the raft is jettisoned to potentially a period of several months. The short-term concerns, calculated in minutes and hours, deal with injuries sustained during abandon-ship procedures, hypothermia, and the ability to keep the raft afloat. Signaling devices can be useful immediately or long-term; they represent the capacity to signal one’s presence to potential rescuers. Medium-term survival, calculated over a few days, depends on the ability to collect water. Finally, long-term survival, measured in days to months, is based on the potential to gather food.

A. Short-Term Survival (Minutes to Hours)

1) Thermal protective aids such as space blankets or survival bags that consist of compact aluminized sheets of heat-reflective material shaped into a suit or a mummy-bag.
2) Chemical heat packs, either four six-hour units or two 20-hour units per crew, to warm crew
3) Self-inflating foam pad or air mattress, especially if the raft has no insulated double floor, for cushioning and added insulation
4) Wool and rubber work gloves and watch cap
5) Minimal first-aid kit including instruction manual, sterile bandages, sutures, seasickness medication (tablets, suppositories, or injectables), pain killers, aspirin for heart attacks, surgeon’s tape, antibiotics, enema sack for rehydration, sun screen, burn cream, petroleum jelly (also for lubricating metal), and inflatable splints.
6) Repair kit with small tubes of silicon seal that cures under water or similar “good goop.” For inflatables, include a spare air pump, clamps (assorted sizes of cymbal type), heavy needles and sail twine, spare canopy and raft material, and glue patches. For rigid dinghies, include underwater epoxy and glass and fabric for making and repairing the canopy 200 feet of 3/16-inch line and 100 feet of 1/4-inch line, duct tape, spare line for lashings, securing items, and improvising.
7) Tools: sheath knife, multitool or Swiss Army knife, several flat blades, file, sharpening stone, tube of oil.
8) Two 1/8- by 8- by 12-inch marine-plywood cutting boards to protect the raft floor from puncture; one can be marked and used as a sextant
9) Two sponges
10) Plastic sacks and ties
11) Lights: small diving flashlights, chemical light sticks
12) Reflective tape attached to the outside of raft

B. Short to Medium-Term Survival (Hours to Days)

1) Secondary EPIRB
2) Waterproof handheld VHF
3) Six SOLAS-approved parachute flares or 12 non-SOLAS parachutes, three handheld red flares, and two orange smoke flares. Metal flare guns may be prone to rust, so carry oil
4) Signaling mirror
5) Navigation kit: survival manual, pencils, pads of paper, waterproofed pilot chart for the ocean traveled, compass, waterproof watch, plastic protractor
6) Parafoil signaling kite that’s compact and light and may be flown in moderate winds, providing some propulsion and extending visibility, even at night (e.g., the Sky-Alert Rescue Kite by Davis Instruments, 510-732-9229)
7) Backup improved Icelandic-style sea anchor (many models are available) that’s a tapered cone with mesh or straps around bridle to prevent fouling, with a strong swivel and rode

C. Medium-Term Survival (Days to Weeks)

1) Reverse-osmosis watermaker equivalent to Survivor 06 (Survivor 35 is preferred for a crew of six or more)
2) Water in pouches or cans; 16 ounces per person for immediate use
3) Transparent biking bottle with secure cap to help rationing
4) Other bags and plastic sheets for water collection
5) Siphon/enema tubing to transfer water between containers or help survivors absorb water rectally
6) Dried fruit and chocolate

D. Long-Term Survival (Weeks to Months)

1) Survival ship’s biscuits
2) Multiple vitamins
3) Fishing kit: small trident and handle, large gaff or Hawaiian sling, 200 feet of 50-pound test (natural cod line shrinks as it dries, good for small lashings), 20 feet of heavy-wire leader, hooks from trout-size to 4-inch, various jigs and lures, sinkers
4) Small plankton net or stockings with stiff metal ring to keep waist open to troll at night (you may be able to live off plankton, but beware of jellyfish)

E. Miscellaneous

1) Photocopies of all essential crew documents, including passports and boat documentation to aid you when reaching land. (It’s advisable to file additional copies ashore along with a list of safety equipment and a float plan.)
2) Shore survival items in case you land in an uninhabited area: waterproof matches, flint, wire saw.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Robin]

Re: handheld GPS

John

The 3 Iron was one of those odd ones when all the moving parts worked in the right order - unfortunately the 3 putts brought reality back...

The mobiles are like the wallets with money and credit cards, also the car/house keys for when hopefully back on dry land. Otherwise everything becomes dependent on someone else, maybe even having to rely on HMG! Imagine if you have been rescued, taken ashore in a foreign land and then you cannot get a flight, hotel, food or make a phone call, and when you do get back cannot get into the car or even the house!

The handheld GPS would certainly help if in VHF contact with maybe a ship (could even be the b****r than ran you down) to aid location (fog?) but we do have the personal 121.5 beacons for aircraft/lifeboat/helicopter location.

Robin

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[Robin]

Re: handheld GPS

Hi John

Two incidents among many stick in my mind.

The first was when a big powerboat caught fire off the French coast, the French CG had heard the mayday but were broadcasting a position that was 12mls out (the casualty had given an hour old position and were making 12kts). The crew were safely in the liferaft but had no VHF to call the ship that was going to their aid, fortunately though the ship had seen the smoke and had heard the correct position...

The second was an incident this year when a big Moody was run down in the English Channel in thick fog, sinking in minutes. Despite being in or near the shipping lanes it was (I believe) some 5 hours later before the survivors in their liferaft were seen by a passing ferry. The VHF would have worked here and a GPS position would definitely have helped too bearing in mind the thick fog.

Well offshore though I agree with you a subscription to Lady Luck might be more use than either GPS or VHF in calling for help, though useful later when it gets closer. The fully offshore scenario really means a proper EPIRB too, more expense to justify to SWMBO!

Merry Christmas to all down under and keep the sunscreen topped up

Robin

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[Robin]

Re: Grab bags? ORC Specs

Alan

That will take some study! One thing is clear though is that there are a combination of places things can be, from being packed an included in the lifraft itself, to the immediate and handy grab bag of extras, extra flare container and then (if time) the stores and other stuff collected before abandoning. Which to put where will keep the mind occupied over xmas.

Robin

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: Shades

sunhats too......

compass!

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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