GPS / Chart Plotting Software Interface

[Guest]

Re: CMap93 charts ....

Easiest way for me to answer is to direct you to the web-site - honest its worth the effort.

But basically Seaclear works with :

BSB / KAP .... Maptech etc.

NOS / GEO .....

WCI ... which are Seaclear calibrated charts from scans etc.

+ of course personal scan charts..... in graphic format such as PNG, JPG, GIF, BMP etc



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[LittleShip]

For those looking to upgrade to a Laptop for the boat these are an excellent
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sterlingxs.co.uk/scpages/panasonictoughbooklaptopcf27.html>http://www.sterlingxs.co.uk/scpages/panasonictoughbooklaptopcf27.html</A>

No affiliation with the company just thought I would pass on a bargin, and yes I do have one and they do bounce which is great for the boat???

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I wish I'd been born rich instead of good looking ?

 

[paulskent]

Re: CMap93 charts ....

Thanks for that. I did look at the web site but was not sure which of the map providers provided which formats. The Maptech site seems to provide the charts I need.
As a side issue the laptop I am planning to use for this purpose does not have a CD reader built into it. (in the interest of saving space and power).
The RYA plotting software I have will only work if the original CD is in the machine.
Not much good if the target machine does not have the required device.

Do you know if this be the case with Seeclear and MAptech.

PK.

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[Guest]

Re: CMap93 charts ....

Nearly all Plotting s/ware now will allow install to hard drive ...... Seaclear / Maptech / Seapro certainly do. along with many others.

The RYA program is ARCs based and so limited by that factor and also lacks many things that other programs do ... even little ol freeware Seaclear .....

Beware with later BSB folios from Maptech ..... it seems they have changed their bsb files from BSB / KAP to BSB / CAP .... and included encryption to stop display in other programs except their own. Maptech have claimed sole rights to BSB format for a long time .... strange that NOA would grant rights to BSB compilation and use allowing others to use it .... Maptech may have changed to get around this point.
But BSB / KAP files are available to buy secondhand - allowed under EU .... as well illegal P2P downloads.

I do not condone illegal practuices but mention it as a fact.

Honest - Seaclear is a fine program that does a very good job ... without costing a fortune ... I shall be skitting over Solent next week with it ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Oldhand]

Re: Zoom factor in Vector

You are not listening Mr. Luther.

With any measured function you should not try and use an accuracy beyond the tolerances of the initial measurement becuase whether you are zooming, expanding or adding decimal places, you are trying to find something that isn't there. Thus one would never want to zoom a raster chart so it becomes "a pixelated load of ......" and you shouldn't be zooming vector charts beyond the scale at which the source data was drawn. At least the pixelation on a raster warns you that you are "over-zooming", what warning do vector charts give?

With the correct software raster charts can also go seamlessly from one chart to another, i.e. MaxSea, which can handle both raster and vector formats. When used on a decent 15"TFT monitor, there is no need to zoom-in beyond the original chart scaling and there is no problem of too much data on the display. Unfortunately manufacturers make rediculously small chartplotter dispalys, the majority of which I would consider unsuitable for serious navigation.

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[Guest]

Re: Zoom factor in Vector

I am listening Mr. Old Hand .... and very well and do not disagree with your posts .... BUT

there are occasions when overzooming is an advantage .... not many but valid. First I can think of approaches to anchorages etc. not for avoiding foul ground or marks - but for reasonable indication of plonking down in the spot you really want ..... not very good example I know ... but I'm thinking on me feet and a lot of other things happening that make it difficult to answer well.

Honestly - no-one is saying that you should overzoom to extract more than is there ... but having played with all sorts and noted the great fifference between vectior and raster based ... I prefer the vector - unfortunately I am forced like many others due to financial considerations to stay with raster and scans ..... plus of course that I like Seaclear ..... which does not cater for vector.

As origuinator of GPS Nav - we have access and advise / info from many sources about many parts of GPS plotting etc. someof which was obtained via dubious sources - later shut down and removed from the group on request of commercial interests ..... that gave us an insight in to such a range that it is hard to forget ! or ignore.
The immediate difference and capability of CMap93 ECS against others was astounding .... but limited by its 256 colour display -initially giving the thought that display would be less .... far from it - the clarity and display was very good and the vessel was not hidden in the detail and marks of the chart. I have noticed since using raster based systems that unless the vessel is specified to display in stark contrast etc. can be lost at times in cluttered display ......

Of course all is a personal opinion as I have noticed not only on Forums but also within the GPS Nav group a definite set of groups .... pro raster and pro vector .....

Let us go for a bit of history : Why Raster was used ? Raster took up less space and processor power on lesser machines in past and also were / are based on Admiralty scans. Vector was limited to high capacity powerful systems that then appeared on public market. The Public having been brought uip on Adm. charts of copurse felt affinity with Raster - as the ARCs adverts say .... exact copies on PC of familiar paper charts. Vector has had a hard fight to put itself up against this familiarity.
The vector chart also has the ability - which Raster cannot ... of being able to turn of levels of detail determined by the user .... that is the vector overlays .... so that a clear chart etc. can be displayed or turned on to guive max detail etc. A Raster cahrt can only display waht is scanned in - no turn offs or on at all ... except for any user marks notations added ....

I pride myself on being one of few that actually read the post that originates .... I have noticed that often a post is not read by some and their versions put up into the thread .... please I do not imply to you Oldhand ... as we have had some interesting discussions across these forums many times ....

Final word .... I like the look of Raster - as it is familiar after years of parrellel rules etc., but I like the vector chart for its clean and unclutttered appearance. If I could afford it - I would go for CMap system especially that it will mosty likely be included in the soon to be released ECS specification ....

For those following this thread and our two way discussion - do not confuse CMap NT with Cmap93 ..... completely different beasts .....

Life goes on ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[markdj]

Re: Zoom factor in Vector

Have you looked at Meridian Seatrak?

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rcds.co.uk>http://www.rcds.co.uk</A>

Uses ARCS charts which are great - one guy who uses vector remarked to me on the level of detail on the charts the is just not very clear on a vector chart. Added to the fact of zero redraw time, it is very accurate and easy to use. Highly recommended and used by the UK and Irish Navy (ARCS).

Have a look at some of my previous posts on this subject.

Good cruising


MDJ

<hr width=100% size=1>Princess Owners Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.princessownersclub.com>http://www.princessownersclub.com</A>

 

[Guest]

ARCs is ARCs .......

Program using makes no difference to ARC's charts .... they are still scanned versions of paper charts without overlays.

I am totally confused by his statement that <the level of detail on the charts the is just not very clear on a vector chart.> in fact I find it clearer as its not so large and surrounded by other large detail .. generally the same detail as Raster being in smaller type etc. gives cleaner picture ... thats my opinion anyway.

Do you really use EVERY last bit of info shown on a chart ? Wioth Raster you cannot choose - its always displayed. With Vector you can choose what detail to display without losing the physical bottom and depths etc.

I still refer to the discussion bewteen myself and Oldhand ..... I remain unconvinced.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[markdj]

Re: ARCs is ARCs .......

Every last bit of info on a raster chart? I'm not sure what you mean, but raster charts are always clear, never cluttered, never missing detail, always accurate. The only thing I wouldn't use that often on a raster chart is the 3-d reliefs of hills showing conspicuous landmarks and the compass rose. Everything else, I use including tidal diamonds etc.

With the Raytech software, you can use vector and raster.


MDJ

<hr width=100% size=1>Princess Owners Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.princessownersclub.com>http://www.princessownersclub.com</A>

 

[Guest]

Re: ARCs is ARCs .......

Raytech is seriosuly limited to certain Vector that .... dare I say it .... do not compare to CMap93. for example CMap NT is a lesser species than the full blood CMap93 format.

To apprecaite real vector - its necessary to use Cmap93 and really put it through its paces ....

Raster - as I said I like for its familiar look - but I am not happy to have limitations in zoom and therefore clarity when zooming ... If you use the charts - raster - at default or only zoom in / out a moderate increment from default - then you;ll be happy ....

again its preference - one mans meat is another mans poison.

You will never convince me to stand with raster completely having tasted quality vector .... as said also I am forced financially to stay with raster and scans ..... not being able to afford the cost of CMap93 and its not justified on a 25ft motor sailer that does not venture that far ......

But I still value its format - vector ...... and also agree that raster satisfies my need for what I do .... shouild I venture further and more Blue water stuff - I shall re-evaluate my stand on paying for CMap93 and its successor ... the full ECS system ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[markdj]

Re: ARCs is ARCs .......

Did I mention you can print out entire charts up to A2 size with the Seatrak software?



What software is used with the CMap93 format?

Good cruising


MDJ

<hr width=100% size=1>Princess Owners Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.princessownersclub.com>http://www.princessownersclub.com</A>

 

[Guest]

So who has REALLY used Vector -

I mean really put it through its paces instead of a short look and turn away from its initial look as I did .... I wnet back and really took it on - in my advantage of being able to view on ships etc. I soon started to apprecaite its detail and style.

I would hazard a guess that the majority of postees / users of programs for plotting buy a prog - normally raster based - then justify its existence and stand with it ... not really knowing the other side of the coin ..... To quote raytech is a poor example for Vector unfortunately as it does not use CMap93 in any form or way whatsoever.

Don't get me wrong - I am not trying to convert anyone - so please do not try with me .... we all have our ways and favourites .... I am putting forward my view and my undestanding ..... for what its worth ...


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Guest]

Re: ARCs is ARCs .......

You can do it in many ways ....the easiest is via Cmap for windows ..... in any scale / zoomyou wish .... in fact you can even keep scales EXACT and stitch or physically paste etc. etc.

Maptech and various other will print in any size / page style you can dependent on Printer ............

So whats so special ?????

As I hinted at nicely - you are in Raster camp, I am in Vector camp ...... can we agree to disagree and allow each other own views ..... I am not trying to convince you to change - so why try with me ?

I shall be out in the Solent next week and enjoying Seaclear and its raster and my scanned charts ....... perfectly adequate for what I do there .... given different cruise reqt's and range - I would choose CMap93 and vector ..... QED for me

Ian - why haven't you entered this - or leaving it for the old veteran are you ????? Seeing as you have an installed CMap93 system on your boat .... ??????

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Oldhand]

Re: Zoom factor in Vector

I can understand why vector charts are popular but more especially when used on small plotter displays. However, the thing that always worries me about vector charts is the scope for the introduction of errors in their manufacture. Having spent some time at a digitising table I reckon there are few more boring jobs and boredom can lead to errors being made. I beleive there is only one possible area for introducing error in a scanned raster chart (assuming a decent linear scanner) and that is when referencing it to the geodetic system/datum to which it is designed to be used. Not being a long winded boring process, I believe the chances of such an error are very small indeed and is likely to be an obvious error if it does occur.

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[BrendanS]

Re: So who has REALLY used Vector -

I guess its a thing that only people who have tried both sides can comment on with any accuracy. Me, I'd go for Vector anytime, and I've been on both sides, and have done serious navigation with Mountain Rescue, Hill walking, climbing etc, and for boating, vector gets my vote everytime.

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[Guest]

Accepted ... but

have you ever chart corrected or similar .... I have on msot ships I sailed - being responsible for correcting worldwide folios ...... what a chore .........

Second the adm are using computers to overlay and produce the charts that are the base of Raster / Vector whatever .... so the error you mention is possible at the heart of the system when the poor old hydrographer is doing his digital pc work to produce your chart........

Vector was produced for commercial initially so had to be accurate as possible .... the consequences are too serious to think about ....

Anyway - interesting debate that lasted a while !!!!
Happy cruising....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Guest]

As many know GPS Navigator

Group was started by me and is enjoying good success with members all over the world ....

It is interesting that we have a spread of users with raster / vector etc. The group covers - Air nav, Sea, Land .... all sorts and gives an interesting perspective .....

We do not have so many comments about formats now as we used in the early days .... but it is known that their are definite camps ... those Raster, others Vector.

So Brendan ..... if its not asking too much - can you say why you plump for Vector >> Healthy debate is good for all ....

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[iangrant]

I'm in danger of jumping in here and going off half cocked - Anyhow - turn off the Garmin default string and turn on the NMEA - it'll work straight away (on the garmin unit)

ian

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[iangrant]

Re: Wrong program for CMap to GPS ..

I had both sets of software on board Navmaster Admiralty charts and CMap. The ARCs are great for passage making but the other perfect for "close in stuff". It will zoom down to pontoon level and is more acurate than my Nav ever will be..or for that matter the ARCs on Navmaster which showed us sail over the cafe on the entrance to bembridge.
Cmap brought us back in to Chichester on a foul wet windy night last year with broken engine mounts by the nab channel on a cruise back from Cherbourg with a few other chaps.

Ian

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[Guest]

Oh Ian .....

CMFW .... is not the plotting program .... its the viewer .... he needs CmapECS .....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/