Goretex - limited life?

[toadfish]

Hi,
I have goretex jacket (had a lot of wear and tear - but no holes).
It is not musto etc, but a walking coat (very expensive when new). It is the triple layer goretex type, Taslan material as the outer most.

I have an old goretex survival suit too.

Comparing the two, a puddle of water on the suit stays as a puddle. On the jacket, it is immediately wicked into the taslan.

But this is the query bit. If the goretex below the taslan was intact, then no water should get inside. right? Well the inside is getting damp.

So, has the goretex gone South completely (this is a second hand coat and I've no idea what the previous owner washed it with) in which case I don't want to keep the coat (Tek Wax would waterproof it, but not bring the goretex back to life).

Or... can I bring (the goretex) back to life with one of those "in the wash" additives.

If I can't bring it back to life, I'd rather know now, so I can try to get a refund (preferably without shelling out another £8 on a bottle, if the opinion is that the bottles isn't going to work anyway don't work.

Cheers.

 

[toadfish]

I\'ve found out...

a bit from the web site (made by the people who make goretex) but they say that the outer layer should be treated to stop wetting out, but they say the jacket should still not let water through.

No where can I find anyone who will say that the goretex poly...something something... does break down.

So I still don't know

 

[andyball]

On simple outer/goretex/mesh garments I've found that washing at low temp with pure soap flakes, followed by tumble drying at a low temp works wonders - & was the recommended way to go.

If the outer fabric is dirty and/or lost its water repellent coating it can lead to it feeling damp inside & the water just wicking into it as you mentioned. But don't just whack a re-replellent on it - use one recommended by goretex & imo do this after careful washing to clean the goretex layer.

If there's no repellent on the outer - with some fabrics it can 'feel' damp on the inside, when wet, even though no actual water passing through the goretex... ie it feels cold & clammy, even tho not actually wet-until you wear it & water vapour less able to escape due to sodden outer.

But check manufacturers washing instructions for the specific item before tumbling anything.

 

[David52]

Gore-Tex is in itself fragile stuff, but doesn't "wear out" or break down chemically with any great speed. Because it can't take a lot of abrasion, sandwich it between layers of material. In three-ply a layer of fabric is bonded to the Gore laminate in place of the mesh. The layers protect the gore-tex from wear, the outer layer contains a water-repellent coating that helps the outer layer from saturating which impairs the “breathable” action.

If the outer layer has lost its original coating it will as you describe become saturated. This has the effect that when it gets wet it stops the jacket breathing and thus you get wet an clammy inside as moisture condenses inside. You can in theory recoat the outer layer with something like NikWax TX Direct but it the outer layer has become too abraded or frayed this will impair its ability to properly hold the proofing. It

In essence the gore layer is probably working fine it’s just the outer component letting the side down.

Anecdotally I used to know fell runners who would use gore-tex jackets but replace them every season or two. As you can imaging with running etc there was a lot of wear on the garment. In practical terms it may be time for a new jacket as while reproofing can work pretty well, it never seems to be good as the original coating and tends to wear off quite quickly.

 

[macd]

I had trouble with (non boating) Goretex gear some years ago. As well as any warranty from the maker of the garment, you may find you have one from the makers of Goretex, too. I did and found them helpful.

WL Gore & Associates, tel 01506 429437. This number is some years old, so may not work, but they no doubt have a web site, too.

 

[Jodel]

Goretex + argument with a Gorse bush = non waterproof jacket.

The spines easily pass through the outer layer and pierce the inner membrane.

 

[Mirelle]

Is it in fact Gore-tex?

I say this because when I was working in China (where almost all outdoor clothing is made, from Musto to North Face, via ski wear) there was a thriving trade in very good quality fake Gore-Tex jackets, mostly with wholly convincing "W.L. Gore Associates" labels and related documentation. The hardened local dwelling expatriate like me struck up friendships with the "Tianjin Mafia"; the unwary tourist was less fortunate.

 

[jockster]

My old goretex jacket lasted nearly 10 years of very hard wear. The occasional wash as recommended revived it. When it failed it was where backpack straps had obviously abraided the internal layers. Water came through there but nowhere else. C'est finis, kaput. Bought a new one.

 

[michael_w]

I heard somwhere that the patent on goretex has expired; which is why so many other "breathable" fabrics have appeared recently.

 

[Superstrath]

I used to make protective clothing and had a Gore-Tex licence. It is a very good product, but there are others, Simpatex being especially good. The clever thing about Gore is that they control the quality of the finished product, even though they do not design or manufacture anything other than the fabric laminates. You can't just buy a bit of Gore-Tex then make it up how you please. The result is that people are pleased with the overall performance of the jacket or whatever, maintaining the perception of ultimate performance for their product - they just don't allow rubbish onto the market.
The product itself is essentially PTFE film, and the clever thing is that they worked out how to make it stick to the carrier fabrics. The seams are sealed with a special tape, applied under pressure with heat. Most failures are in taped areas, especially if they are subject to load from straps etc., but if the rest of the jacket is OK they can often be re-taped if the original becomes broken or loose. I'm not sure that it's in a manufacturer's interest to do so, though, unless on a newish jacket under warranty. Punctures can be taped if access can be gained without too much trouble. Pity I don't have my factory any more, eh?

 

[ninnes]

Apparently the thing to revive Goretex, or at least the outer layer is a wash followed by a warm ironing. Have you tried that?
See http://www.gore-tex.co.uk/published/gfe_navnode/gb.care.ci.gtx.html

 

[toadfish]

THANKS

for that guys.

I think the guy before must have treated it badly and the goretex has come to the end of its life. Too bashed around, maybe washed too high a temp?

I just suspended the back panel of the jacket and poured a puddle of water into it.

In no time the inside of the jacket was wet. Even if the outer lets water through, the goretex should stop it I think. The outer can be treated of course, but then what's the point of buying goretex.

It was made in Britain. By a company that semi do it by hand (hence £400 new price tag).

 

[scarlett]

Re: THANKS

The guy who said the Chinese Gortex was less than perfect was probably right. It is breathable and waterproof. But the price is the clincher for me. I paid £20 each for two Gortex three layer jackets with an inner detachable fleece, £15 for the salpets and less than £5 for some very wearable Gortex gloves. I thought I was buying 'seconds'.

How they will be after a decade of hard use what the heck? Twenty quid. You might have difficulty buying kosher Gortex gloves for that.

 

[mithril]

First of all let me say that I think Goretex is superb but like you I once had a jacket on which the outer layer saturated so I rang the techies at Gore. They said I had probably destroyed the outer layer by repeated washing and particularly by stuff like Nikwax etc. They said if the washing or proofing product does not actually carry the Goretex logo do not use it at any cost.

 

[Vara]

That does not tie in with the info given on Goretex site HERE and in the Nikwax site HERE Gore-tex is a "named" product for their cleaning and proofing products,given Gore-tex's policing of their name this gives an implicit approval?
The regime I now employ(after many years of Gore-tex use)is;Wash in Nikwax Techwash,do a couple of extra rinses and then apply TX direct proofer.I used to then tumble dry but now use an iron at the 2 blob setting to fix the proofer.The proofers main function on breathable fabric is to get run off of water from the top layer not to prevent water penetrating right through fabric,similar to the effect you get on a car when you polish it.
The sad fact of life is that eventually even Gore-Tex breaks down and you have to buy a new garment,but the benefits far outweigh that expense.

Caveat;the ironing bit is iffy,temp is critical,test on a small bit first,the first time I did it I burnt a hole.

 

[mithril]

Be it on your head. I simply tell you what they said.

I've checked the Gore site and find it extremely vague so, as I said above, be it on your head.