Goosewinged

[Jacket]

I've never heard of that meaning for goosewinged. For the last couple of hundred years (and maybe more, but I can't think of any older sailing books that I've read) goosewinged has generally refered to one sail out either side, as mentioned previously.

On older boats the term was almost always used in congunction with schooners, and it meant they had the two gaff sails, the main and fore, out on opposite sides. You didn't often hear of single masted gaffers being goosewinged, as on the old working boats, the jibs were so small compared to the main that it often wasn't worth the hastle of poling out the small jib.

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[wpsalm]

schooner presumably gaff rigged you must be reading an old book any how was explained to me as a way to avoid excessive weather helm running off with just the main on a sloop or cutter as you can probably imagine a gaff main,s center of effort is much further outboard than a modern marconi. as for a schooner running wing and wing can,t immagine ...schooners usually larger vessels and this point of sail would be very dangerous'.....

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[tome]

Don't understand why it will be loaded - it's a preventer to stop the boom gybing after all. If it's loaded then the sail will have backed, but the boom will not have gybed over.

If this is the case then surely you put the helm over so that you're no longer sailing by the lee and then let the preventer off (quickly) followed by a normal controlled gybe.

The mainsheet is a much better control for gybing the boom and I'd not want to use the preventer for this.

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[Jacket]

<If this is the case then surely you put the helm over so that you're no longer sailing by the lee>

If you're not quick enough putting the helm over, or if its really blowing, the backed main will slow you down enough that often you can't get the boat back on course. Especially true for light boats with small rudders. In these cases, you have to be able to release the preventer under load, so you can gybe the main across.

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[tome]

Sorry to be stubborn Jacket, but I don't see this. Even with a twisted main you'll still have forward drive and if your rudder can't turn the boat through the wind I would use a boomlock or similiar athwartship control rather than a preventer. A preventer doesn't have a fair lead for a controlled gybe, so you would have to haul the mainsheet as you ease the preventer under considerable load.

Each to his own, but I like to get it off quick whilst it's lazy. I wouldn't rig it at all in narrow waters where I don't have space to turn. Probably worth saying that I mostly sail short handed.

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[jimi]

I have actually sailed a yacht backwards, with the gybe preventer set up hard and the genoa poled out, with the pole downhaul also set up hard ... now how's that for esotorica!!

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[Jacket]

I can't see where you think you're getting drive from if your main is backed. With the wind against the front face of the sail its pushing the boat backwards. The genoa may still be filling, but if its poled out this just makes matters worse, as the combined forces on the two sails will just try and twist the boat further round. It doesn't matter what boat you've got, but leave it long enough with a backed main and you'll get to a stage where you can't recover your course.

I agree with you that a preventer can't be used to control the gybe. This wasn't what I was saying. The gybe still has to be controlled by the mainsheet. However, you can't initiate a gybe till you've released the preventer, which will be under a lot of load, so you need a safe means of releasing in gently.

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[tome]

Done this also on YM course- it was fun but hard work on the rudder doing nearly 5 knots backwards!

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[tome]

If you're so far off course that you completely back the main then you are no longer downwind and the preventer can be let fly without any danger. No need to ease it.

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[Jacket]

<preventer can be let fly without any danger>

?????!!!!!!!!!
No danger? The sails full of wind on its front face, you let the preventer off quickly and the boom comes flying across the cockpit, garrotting the mother in law with the mainsheet in the process. Always struck me as dangerous.

If you can ease the preventer off slowly, you can at least get the boom in a bit towards the centreline before the lead angle becomes too small. Still not ideal, but at least it takes a bit of the force out of the gybe.

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[qsiv]

Re: Watch Tackle?

also referred to as a hadybilly - a purcase (mines 4:1) with snatch blocks or strops at each end to make fast to anything you want...

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[wpsalm]

this topic sure rattled some chains .....sailing in reverse....etc. could imagine some old chap taking his engineless little gaffer to sea winter and summer year in and out catching fish ,supporting his familly.... what would he think of it all selftailing winches line jammers and sailing backwards....

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[tome]

Sailing backwards

In many years of sailing the only time this has happened is when we did it deliberately!

I'd worry about a helm who could allow this situation, and certainly wouldn't leave them unsupervised. Are you saying that this is a regular occurence on your boat? If so, I can see your need to ease away but suggest that you're tackling the symptom rather than the cause.

I'll stick to my quick release, each to his own.

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[Jacket]

Re: Sailing backwards

Its not a helm who'd allow this situation. Its more a case of me sailing singlehanded, along with a very stupid autopilot.

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[tome]

Aaah - All is clear

Can see your problem now.

Autopilots seem to struggle with the wind behind - I don't trust mine either on this point of sail although recent experiments with the rudder sensitivity have shown that it can hold a course for long enough for me to attend to sheets etc if sailing single handed. A good AP is worth it's weight in gold and no more so than when sailing SH.

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[Rabbie]

Instead of a bowline such as yours Jimi, I have a strop about 18" long with snap shackles at both ends permanently fixed by one to the boom end, the other clipped anywhere out of the way until required. This, like your bowline makes it easier to reach to affix the preventer line - and saves having to tie a bowline..

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[Gunfleet]

<<saves having to tie a bowline>>
Doesn't seem much of a saving, Rabbie. And I'd rather take a clout round the lughole from a bowline!
J

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[Rabbie]

Suit yourself. In 12 years I've never suffered a clout!.

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