Good Value Boat heaters

[Boat2016]

Spoken by someone who thinks it is always about the money...…….. Has it not occurred to you that some people might enjoy doing something real with their hands rather than the work they do to earn money.

The other day I spent a pleasant afternoon replacing the wheel bearings on one of my trailers (I have about 10 +). The day before I was offered a piece of Surveying work which would have earned me about £500. I turned that down and did the £200 job on my trailer...………….. Perhaps I am an idiot in your world or perhaps I would rather spend my time on that occasion doing something that gave me satisfaction and also I know the job was done correctly...……… Perhaps you do it your way and I will do it mine

Not always about the money, I have a business to run and staff to keep busy so can’t just disappear to work on a boat whenever I like, not much spare time so I make the most of what I do get, maybe once I have fully handed over business it will likely be different, I’m quite happy to tackle a small job but anything more involved i would end up rushing it and not be happy with the end result.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Not always about the money, I have a business to run and staff to keep busy so can’t just disappear to work on a boat whenever I like, not much spare time so I make the most of what I do get, maybe once I have fully handed over business it will likely be different, I’m quite happy to tackle a small job but anything more involved i would end up rushing it and not be happy with the end result.

So your circumstances are different from mine...….. Probably because of the choices you have made. Not so long ago I ran a business with 50 staff. I don't run that any more and I am glad I don't...….. I did not make that choice it was made for me but it turned out to be a good thing

 

[oldgit]

Erm.....
...some are fortunate enuff to be able to pick up a phone and hey presto a man fits a heater to a boat.They have far more important things to worry about, wasting time grovelling about in the bilges of boat is (both financial and physical ) lunacy.
....some have to think very hard about spending £130.00 on something , but the opportunity is now there and the alternative is a knackered old Eber unit and lot of grief.
...some are simply too mean and/ or fancy a challenge, and/or are prepared to ignore all the lessons their previous attemps at DIY should have taught them.
Much Chinese stuff is total total crap but, there is stuff out there worth a look.
Finding it, is the problem. Much as it ever was ?

 

[Bigplumbs]

Erm.....
...some are fortunate enuff to be able to pick up a phone and hey presto a man fits a heater to a boat.They have far more important things to worry about, wasting time grovelling about in the bilges of boat is (both financial and physical ) lunacy.
....some have to think very hard about spending £130.00 on something , but the opportunity is now there and the alternative is a knackered old Eber unit and lot of grief.
...some are simply too mean and/ or fancy a challenge, and/or are prepared to ignore all the lessons their previous attemps at DIY should have taught them.
Much Chinese stuff is total total crap but, there is stuff out there worth a look.
Finding it, is the problem. Much as it ever was ?

Much of what you said is true...……… I wonder however about the 'More important things they have to worry about' comment...…….. Some times people overlook Important things for those that they think are important (like making more money when they already have enough)...….. Sad thing is by the time they realise they a often too old to do much about it...…………….. Or have turned into an Old Git

 

[Portofino]

Dennis can’t you see the risk of being on the receiving end of litigation from a no win no fee law outfit ? Similarly having to explain a damming insurance accessor report about your safety argument regarding lack of suitable ,acceptable , industry standard safety testing like CE marks ,as an example there could be more standards it’s not met ?

Exceeding the speed limit say doing 34 in a 30 and getting “ done “ is a small TRIVIAL fine / speed awareness/ points or whatever , it’s a calculated risk as you have righty’s pointed out .

The RISK here is beyond my comfort zone ,for my personal use and worst still 3rd parties on board .
Bench testing in a shed in the garden is not enough .
Why not get trading standards involved as a CYA - cover your arse .But I think I know what there response will be .

Risky can’t you see that ?

 

[CLB]

How many of us can be 100% sure that every item on our boats is suitably marked and certified? If you buy new, I guess you should expect it, but for those of us that buy used, we really have no idea whether bits that have been retro fitted are certified or installed correctly.

 

[petem]

Similarly having to explain a damming insurance accessor report about your safety argument regarding lack of suitable ,acceptable , industry standard safety testing like CE marks ,as an example there could be more standards it’s not met ?

P, what clause in your insurance policy do you think fitting your own heater would fall foul of?

 

[petem]

Personally, I prefer to fit the expensive stuff but if someone else wants to fit a Chinese copy then that's up to them. It's perfectly feasible that the quality is acceptable, particularly as in this case there seems to be a large body of people that have had no issues with these heaters.

What you do need to be careful of though is the Chinese copies of Chines copies.

 

[Andy Cox]

To me, this whole thing should be fairly straightforward.

We all have to accept that many products are being copied, produced and sold at vastly reduced prices and for many reasons that have already been mentioned. Some will represent good value and some won't be, as they're just plain crap.

However, if I chose to go ahead and purchase something like this heater, then I would look for an approved CE mark which would satisfy me it meets all the appropriate requirements within the UK / Euro zone.

As I see it, there are then two risks involved. Firstly it's an illegal copy with fake marks on it being sold by a fraudster and secondly, I'm going to lose my money because the product is simply crap, lasts five minutes but is CE approved. As far as the first risk is concerned, one can carry out due diligence and look at the feed back on the selling platform and speak with people who have already bought the item on forums like this.

As far as DIY heater installations are concerned, there is nothing complicated in fitting one of these things providing you have a suitable level of competence and follow the manufacturers instructions. As previously said, I don't think your insurers would or could have a problem with a DIY installation, providing both of the above criteria can be proven.

I also believe very strongly that a good quality smoke and CO2 alarm should be fitted on every boat with any sort of burner on board. We don't, as we are all electric and therefore only have smoke detectors fitted.

Just my own thoughts on the matter.
Andy

 

[Portofino]

P, what clause in your insurance policy do you think fitting your own heater would fall foul of?

Pete to quote Denis “ read the post “
I deliberately left out the DIY bit for a reason .
The lawyer s have enough to go on to achieve a settlement quickly with just the lack of testing / approval / CE marks etc etc
This is for a 3 P personal injury case by a survivor or survivor s relatives if there’s harm from a fire or fumes from the device . You know vegetable , needing 24/24 care and house adapting due to brain damage from the incident .

Your ins ,your boat agrees to pay out but says stuff like £10 k for loss of eye etc or some other peanuts amount for Denis [ insert children’s ] best friend or partner who happened to go away with Dennis and stay overnight in the stern cabin when the incident hapended .



They will of in due course find out it was DIY and may bring that up if after the event there competent engineer produces a report ,a damming report as part of the investigation.” Mounted to close to [ insert your fire hazard ] “ “ wrong type of exhaust seal “ etc
This Engineer equally may sign off the install , but as I said “ doing the owner “ over the install is a side issue .

Iam talking about fire / fumes leading to life changing injuries directly related to the unregulated fire and fumes producing appliance going wrong ,

Not talking about a DIY say Passerelle , a plank say whereby somebody ( best mate ) falls in and knackers there phone or bust a leg .
If your ins Co refutes that you sub the mate for the phone and come to an arrangement over his lost pay while his legs in a pot ,Thats a tiny risk .
Or buying ( keeping PI out ) say a cheap plotter - same zero testing and CE marks etc as this heater that after DIY instal goes pop and maybe due to bodged ( let’s call it not professional) wiring instal takes down some other dash stuff .Agian it’s your loss no 3p claim , risk worth talking which a few have already said , iam not against DIY or acquiring Chianese none “ marked “ marked in a EU accepted way .

As a side issue and it really is a side issue I wonder if a reputable ,registered , qualified, ( bullit proof in the eyes of the law ) engineer would instal one of theses .Answer is NO .As it’s his cock on the block in a court room drama .
I can’t see any reason why this chap or his firm should not be able to supply a heater or advise you which to buy .
He will have 3p liabilities too linked to correctly marked like CE etc products and all the paperwork stamped.

 

[Portofino]

P, what clause in your insurance policy do you think fitting your own heater would fall foul of?

Pete dare you ask Y ?:encouragement:.

somthing along the lines of ——

“ would I still be covered for a claim to do with fire and / or fumes particularly to settle a PI resulting from me (DIY ) fitting this [ insert link ] .For clarity it’s not got any approved testing marks .”

 

[petem]

Pete dare you ask Y ?:encouragement:.

somthing along the lines of ——

“ would I still be covered for a claim to do with fire and / or fumes particularly to settle a PI resulting from me (DIY ) fitting this [ insert link ] .For clarity it’s not got any approved testing marks .”

Nope, I'm not asking them. But, these are what I believe are the relevant terms...

1.3 You must maintain the Vessel for the use intended.
1.4 You must not make any commitment on Our behalf without Our prior agreement.
1.5 The Vessel and the manner in which it is used or operated must comply with all statutory and local regulations or licencing conditions, as are applicable.

So the questions for me are...

1) Is the heater CE Marked. If it isn't then it shouldn't be sold in the UK / EU.
2) Does the fitting of an illegal heater contravene 1.5.

 

[Mr Googler]

I think it’s about taking reasonable steps as a responsible owner from an insurance standpoint.

You buy a unit from a UK supplier with all the protections that there are supposed to be with that in terms of quality/compliance.

You install yourself and get a local BSS inspector or similar to check the install and document it meets their requirements.

How much further can an insurance company expect someone to reasonably go?

If the unit turns out to not meet the requirements it should for selling in the UK, that’s not your fault.

I’m not saying I would buy any old crap and would obviously look for reviews from others but the principles above are the same whether spending £100 or £1000 imho.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I think it’s about taking reasonable steps as a responsible owner from an insurance standpoint.

Yes

If the unit turns out to not meet the requirements it should for selling in the UK, that’s not your fault.

It is at least arguable that wouldn't hold if for example an uncertified product was sourced over the internet from outside the EU.

 

[Mr Googler]

It is at least arguable that wouldn't hold if for example an uncertified product was sourced over the internet from outside the EU.

I get that however, I buy a heater off EBay from a seller listed as being in Liverpool and the advert may even say “UK seller”.....how much further do I reasonably have to go?

If I’m buying direct from an obvious Chinese source like www. Dodgydieselheatersthatwillcatchfire.cn......fair enough.

Personally....I think buying one of these and fitting one yourself is a pretty straightforward affair and can be done safely with a bit of common sense. I do understand the insurance concerns and a few bits of paper of ce conformity and install is ok can’t hurt. Not like they want to payout is it.

 

[BruceK]

I still struggling with the concept of cannot be legally sold with the fact they are being legally sold. Not quite sure how that all works :ambivalence:

 

[rubberduck]

Did you not read where I said I was going to test it on the bench in the workshop...……. Just incase you are confused that workshop is not in my boat as my boat is not that big..... Where have you got the evidence that the electrics are fake and what does that even mean...….. Have you been listening to Trump too much

Are you qualified to test it ?
Take the unit to trading standards & ask them to get their experts to check it out, if its OK you can come back here & tell us, if not you may end up saving someones life !

 

[oldgit]

As a side issue and it really is a side issue I wonder if a reputable ,registered , qualified, ( bullit proof in the eyes of the law ) engineer would instal one of theses .Answer is NO .As it’s his cock on the block in a court room drama

Existing Eber/Web suppliers have already installed Planar heaters.

 

[Blue Sunray]

fitting one yourself is a pretty straightforward affair and can be done safely with a bit of common sense. I do understand the insurance concerns and a few bits of paper of ce conformity and install is ok can’t hurt. Not like they want to payout is it.

:encouragement:

Though some of thread is almost as entertaining as the fast show.

 

[MrB]

I still struggling with the concept of cannot be legally sold with the fact they are being legally sold. Not quite sure how that all works :ambivalence:

I'm no expert on this but the way I've always thought it was "cannot legally be sold in the UK" but what's stopping you buying one in China and shipping it over? Enter Ebay.