capnsensible
Well-known member
Avalook at the link I posted for the Evolution Tiller Pilot. Has prices too. #277. £1299,95 from Marine Superstore.
Golden Globe Race
- Thread starter capnsensible
- Start date
Avalook at the link I posted for the Evolution Tiller Pilot. Has prices too. #277. £1299,95 from Marine Superstore.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Not sure if its powerful enough for an Anderson 22 tho. 
Robert Wilson
Well-known member
Is it time to shunt the "auto" thingy into another discussion and all of us revert to the GGR?
Just saying
Just saying
stevepick
...
Coming back to why an apparent high number of GGR boats are struggling in extreme seas, there is an interesting comment on this in the November Yachting World report on the rescue of Tomy. Merfyn Owen who is a IMOCA 60 designer comments on the stability curve differences between the GGR type hulls ( narrow, heavy disp) and the modern race boats (wide, deep/bulb keel) . The modern boats , although they have a lower AVS, they have higher overall, and initial stability, so they are not so prone to knockdown. They also suffer from lower boat speed, meaning waves striking a slower boat will have more impact force. However this may well be down to larger size of more modern boats (esp the racers). A better comparison would be the Bene 43 compared to say a Nich 43, but the stability curve diffs would probably be similar. Its certainly worth a read.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Looks like the next Skipper is nearly at the pit stop. That must be a bit of a test of nerves coming off the high seas, up and down the river and strait back into it. :ambivalence:
SV Kittiwake
Member
I was thinking that when Loic Lepage set back off from Cape Town, must take some serious mental strength to head back out there...
doug748
Well-known member
I thought it was an interesting piece and seemed a fair appraisal, as far as my understanding goes, of course.
As you say, he was comparing bigger boats with smaller very different types, not to say he was being unfair, just telling it how it is.
I have never seen a stability curve for a IMOCA 60 but there is a lot of expensive technology in light hulls, ballast systems, ultra deep draught and canting keels, that , I assume, contribute to that large area on the left of the Gz curve, that Owen speaks about. To put it crudely these types stack everything on not being rotated to 90 deg and we know that if they are, they are (were) in trouble. With professional skippers, weather route prediction and routine speeds of over 20 kts they prove it can be done triumphantly.
I find it tricky to believe that either the speed differences or shape of stability curve between, taking your example, a Bene 43 and a Nicholson would support the same argument. To cut it short I think the force needed to knock down the Nic might be very similar to the Beneteau but the former might recover with more vim.
If we are looking for an explanation as to why our plucky Oceanis 43 is riding the Southern Ocean like a swan the answer is maybe elsewhere.
{151760}
...
This conforms to my ill-informed ideas. One thing I take from that article is that keel configuration has little effect on roll stability. An IMOCA 60 with a long keel would not be any more stable than a fin keel one. (Though it would be heavier with more resistance). In fact the righting moment of a very deep fin with a big lump of ballast on the end might be beneficial. Your point about relative sizes is a good one, though IMOCA 40s seem to do pretty well.
zoidberg
Well-known member
I won't pretend to be a yacht designer, but I am aware there is significant difference to be acknowledged between Static Stability and Dynamic Stability in the behaviours of ALL kinds of boats in a violent seaway.
I don't pretend this is the answer, but Moitessier reported a much-improved behaviour of his 'Joshua', during a survival storm such as has been endured by GGR contestants, after he had cut away the warps and 'drag devices' he had been trailing. i.e. he had changed the situation from one of Static Stability to Dynamic Stability.
'Heaving-to' and 'lying-to' in the chaotic, towering seas he and the GGR skippers experienced seems to me to be a 'hostage to furtune' strategy, as many others have found out. Perhaps running off at speed, taking such seas as one can on the quarter, is closer to being a prudent tactic.
zoidberg
Well-known member
I wonder what readers will make of Don McIntyre's latest News and Thoughts 'stream of consciousness'....
https://goldengloberace.com/on-a-roll-family-is-everything/
https://goldengloberace.com/on-a-roll-family-is-everything/
Seajet
...
This goes along with my accidental findings as a wet behind the ears 16 year old in my first season as a yot skipper.
I'd already done a few years in racing dinghies and read a lot of the great books like ' My Lively Lady ' and ' Very Willing Griffin ' and I think they saved us.
My parents, dog and I ended up in Portland Race, dragged through by the tide and my poor navigation; the boat was brand new and we hadn't set up a decent main reefing system, which ended up a bonus.
When we were in the rather steep breaking overfalls ( actually bloody scary ! ) I found myself relying on my dinghy experience and the Andersons' terrific rudder authority slaloming down the waves taking them on the quarter; I can say if we'd tried it in my later Carter 30 with full depth skeg the rudder would have stalled and we'd have been screwed, broached.
A Twister going round at the same time reefed right down and set a storm jib, then sat and got pooped - he was very upset to hear we'd got through unscathed while his classic wonder-boat got clobbered
So after that my motto is ' when frightened, keep power on '.
I'd already done a few years in racing dinghies and read a lot of the great books like ' My Lively Lady ' and ' Very Willing Griffin ' and I think they saved us.
My parents, dog and I ended up in Portland Race, dragged through by the tide and my poor navigation; the boat was brand new and we hadn't set up a decent main reefing system, which ended up a bonus.
When we were in the rather steep breaking overfalls ( actually bloody scary ! ) I found myself relying on my dinghy experience and the Andersons' terrific rudder authority slaloming down the waves taking them on the quarter; I can say if we'd tried it in my later Carter 30 with full depth skeg the rudder would have stalled and we'd have been screwed, broached.
A Twister going round at the same time reefed right down and set a storm jib, then sat and got pooped - he was very upset to hear we'd got through unscathed while his classic wonder-boat got clobbered
So after that my motto is ' when frightened, keep power on '.
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{151760}
...
This goes along with my accidental findings as a wet behind the ears 16 year old in my first season as a yot skipper.
I'd already done a few years in racing dinghies and read a lot of the great books like ' My Lively Lady ' and ' Very Willing Griffin ' and I think they saved us.
My parents, dog and I ended up in Portland Race, dragged through by the tide and my poor navigation; the boat was brand new and we hadn't set up a decent main reefing system, which ended up a bonus.
When we were in the rather steep breaking overfalls ( actually bloody scary ! ) I found myself relying on my dinghy experience and the Andersons' terrific rudder authority slaloming down the waves taking them on the quarter; I can say if we'd tried it in my later Carter 30 with full depth skeg the rudder would have stalled and we'd have been screwed, broached.
A Twister going round at the same time reefed right down and set a storm jib, then sat and got pooped - he was very upset to hear we'd got through unscathed while his classic wonder-boat got clobbered
So after that my motto is ' when frightened, keep power on '.
What was the wind strength? You presumably had enough power in it for the tactic to work.
Seajet
...
Around a good F6, I'm saying that from experience knowing everyone over-estimates; anything significantly stronger would have required reducing sail even on our broad reach, then we'd have possibly been in heaps of trouble with our inability to reef - we had full main and working jib - in fact I'd have no choice but to keep on going, as it was we burst through into completely flat water.
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Milestone
Member
Have you guys seen how the Goose barnacles have affected some of the competitors? But not Jean-Luc at the front? Would be interesting to see what AF they are all using.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2154239678162752&id=1751709878415736
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2154239678162752&id=1751709878415736
capnsensible
Well-known member
Its quite amazing how quickly those things grow. Take some shifting too.
zoidberg
Well-known member
It seems The Old man Of The Sea, Jean-Luc, has kept a few tricks up his sleeve.
He has 'triple-anti fouled his hull AND added copper powder to the final coat. That could be one reason for him being so far ahead of the also-rans. Sneeky!
But then, Susie Goodall is also able to turn in repeated days of higher mileage than her fellow competitors. The question arises....
He has 'triple-anti fouled his hull AND added copper powder to the final coat. That could be one reason for him being so far ahead of the also-rans. Sneeky!
But then, Susie Goodall is also able to turn in repeated days of higher mileage than her fellow competitors. The question arises....
Seven Spades
Well-known member
What question arises?
Frank Holden
Well-known member
Dunno what question arises but the answer is...
The faster you go the less fouling you get...
The less fouling you get the faster you go....
and..
the faster you go.....
etc etc......
The faster you go the less fouling you get...
The less fouling you get the faster you go....
and..
the faster you go.....
etc etc......
Seajet
...
I like the idea of magic Alchemist antifoul !
In the 70's International paint had a dinghy bottom finish, wasn't it called ' Speedy ' or something like it, then they banned anything making the hull more slippery ?
I suspect big ships still use such stuff along with TBT antifoul, we're the mugs paying through the nose for emulsion.
zoidberg
Well-known member
One can still buy TBT-based antifoul paint. Just not around here....
Susie Goodall is due into the Hobart/Boatshed 'pit stop' in a couple of hours. She's maintained better average boatspeeds than those around her this past few weeks. It'll be very interesting to see how 'infested with barnacles' her hull is.... and why.
Susie Goodall is due into the Hobart/Boatshed 'pit stop' in a couple of hours. She's maintained better average boatspeeds than those around her this past few weeks. It'll be very interesting to see how 'infested with barnacles' her hull is.... and why.