Going up the mast of a bilge-keeled Westerly Falcon, whilst she's ashore?

[ghostlymoron]

A business operating within the law, that's all. No reason to be sarcastic.

What law are they operating within?

 

[Neeves]

You do not need anyone to hoist you up the mast. You know what you are to do when up the mast and a bucket suitably tied to a rope, longer than mast height, and you can fill the bucket with the kit you need. You can buy fancy tape ladders, you can buy devices, from climbing shops, to hoist yourself up the mast, you could make a rope ladder yourself. You could use three slings, a safety harness and Prussic knots. Once at the height required (if you plan correctly) you can lash the bosons chain (that you took with you) to the crane - giving you a comfortable position from which to work.

What the exercise needs is planning - not advice from people who have no idea of your yacht's security.

Once you are up there your wingman can offer you no security - he's just muscle

If you are unwilling to do this - you have answered you own question.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

I would suggest that a workmans tool belt is much better .....

I was 3/0 up the main mast of a 20,000 ton tanker ... shifter and replacement lamp bulb in a bucket ......... hauling up the bucket - it caught and tipped ....... the shifter narrowly missing the Ch/O below. After that I never used a bucket again. Either rope tied to the tool itself - or a workmans belt.

 

[NealB]

I would suggest that a workmans tool belt is much better .....

I was 3/0 up the main mast of a 20,000 ton tanker ... shifter and replacement lamp bulb in a bucket ......... hauling up the bucket - it caught and tipped ....... the shifter narrowly missing the Ch/O below. After that I never used a bucket again. Either rope tied to the tool itself - or a workmans belt.

Yes, a failsafe line on all tools is a pre-requisite.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Hoisted amate up the mast of his fin keel yacht supported by props,about same weight boat Albin Vega …beam about8 foot

That is dodgy. Once you shake one wedge loose, the rest will follow.

 

[Wansworth]

That is dodgy. Once you shake one wedge loose, the rest will follow.

It was his idea

 

[NealB]

Agreed - 2 lines. But most yards ban the climbing of masts on dry land - 'ealth and Safety.

Do they? I've been up masts, ashore, in quite a few yards.

No-one's ever given me a yellow card.

 

[Refueler]

Here - its cheaper and safer to get a 'Cherry Picker' from local rental co.

Here I'm up on a crane ... incl launch of the boat - 80 euros ......

TBH - any work I do on mast now - I prefer to unstep mast ....

 

[johnalison]

I have only once been up the mast when ashore, with a fin keel on a substantial cradle. If anything I should have been safer than on a boat afloat. The potential drop would be the same, although psychologically it feels higher, but the lack of any movement was reassuring.

 

[Moodysailor]

To me this boils down to risk management - anyone who can't understand why most yards don't allow people to go aloft whilst ashore, don't fully understand all the risks and therefore I wouldn't trust to take me up the mast or make this decision with me.

Those who understand the risks and can see all the possible dangers are the ones I would trust to work through a risk assesment & management case with me and I would make the decision based on mine and that opinion.

Obviously if the yard says no then that is that - if they don't have a definite policy on it, then the only people I trust to make the decsion are myself and the others I mentioned above.

The number of risks in going aloft are many - some may be remote, others more likely. But the outcome if something goes wrong (to the climber or the winchperson) needs to be taken seriously.

 

[NealB]

All done .....it took less than half an hour.

I used two halyards, both tied onto both the bosun's chair and to a chest harness with leg straps.

The only tool (a mutlitool knife), was on a lanyard tied to the bosun's chair, and put in the chair's pocket.

I bounced around at deck level, to test the two halyards separately, the clutches, the winch, the bosun's chair and the chest harness.

Total cost? A bottle of red to the bloke who came to grind the winch (Joscelyn: tailed, took up the slack on the lazy halyard, kept an eye on the clutches).

As usual, it was an enjoyable, and worthwhile, little job.

 

[penberth3]

.......The number of risks in going aloft are many - some may be remote, others more likely. But the outcome if something goes wrong (to the climber or the winchperson) needs to be taken seriously.

Absolutely, and problems in coming down need as much thought as going up. Working at height should never be a solo job.

 

[[70521]]

Hmmmm ........ A sailing friend has declined to winch me up 'Celtic Spirit's mast whilst she's sat ashore.

I'd also decline. Going up masts is something that should only be done afloat.

 

[NealB]

I'd also decline. Going up masts is something that should only be done afloat.

Why?

My friend's logic is that, "the water is softer to fall on than the ground".

(Edit: + "the boat might topple over", as already mentioned).

Neither seem to have much relevance, in my situation, or am I missing something?

 

[penberth3]

What law are they operating within?

I'm sure you know the answer.

 

[[70521]]

Why?

My friend's logic is that, "the water is softer to fall on than the ground".

That doesn't seem to have much relevance, or am I missing something?

Because I don't think it is safe. I spent too long in life picking up dead people who have fallen less than 10 meters onto hard stuff. Falling into water from that height gives you a chance, assuming you don't impale yourself on a stanchion on your down - you can tell I am great fun at at parties.

Different people have different appetite for risk.

 

[jwilson]

I am afraid it is a bit elf'n'safety. The yards here mostly do not prohibit going up the mast when ashore, either by the local professional riggers or by owners. However there is a creeping elf'n'safety lunacy coming in: it is easier for boatyards to prohibit EVERYTHING than risk being sued.

One local yard published a set of terms'n'conditions that effectively said that in order to get on deck or in the cockpit of your own boat once they had lifted it out of the water and put it ashore on their own hired steel cradle, you would have to have scaffolding erected giving a walkway and 1 metre high guardrail all around the deck and cockpit. Of course the boats were packed together far too closely for that to be done, even if any owner had paid for the hire of the scaffolding for months. Funnily enough they have never tried to enforce that rule. But if you fall of and break your leg or die they can point to your failure to comply with the terms'n'conditions that you were deemed to have accepted when you asked them, for a tiny payment of a couple of thousand, to store your boat ashore that winter.....

It is far safer to go up a mast on a boat securely and stably ashore than on a mooring with wash from passing boats or even worse at sea. In he past have done all three.

 

[jwilson]

Because I don't think it is safe. I spent too long in life picking up dead people who have fallen less than 10 meters onto hard stuff. Falling into water from that height gives you a chance, assuming you don't impale yourself on a stanchion on your down - you can tell I am great fun at at parties.

Different people have different appetite for risk.

Check on the gear, including condition of halyards and all blocks etc, two halyards, bounce HARD when 2 feet up as a final check, it really is not that dangerous. I have heard of many people killed sailing - and this is mostly a very safe sport - but never one from modern yacht owners going up masts to fix things, apart from one possibly apocryphal story of someone dying of a heart attack whilst at the top of a mast. Old working square-riggers different - no elf'n'safety there, an ancestor of mine died on one, he had previously been a crewman on an Americas Cup racer.

 

[[70521]]

Check on the gear, including condition of halyards and all blocks etc, two halyards, bounce HARD when 2 feet up as a final check, it really is not that dangerous. I have heard of many people killed sailing - and this is mostly a very safe sport - but never one from modern yacht owners going up masts to fix things, apart from one possibly apocryphal story of someone dying of a heart attack whilst at the top of a mast. Old working square-riggers different - no elf'n'safety there, an ancestor of mine died on one, he had previously been a crewman on an Americas Cup racer.

I'm ex-Mountain Rescue hence my comment. Very often people die on short falls.

 

[NealB]

Because I don't think it is safe. I spent too long in life picking up dead people who have fallen less than 10 meters onto hard stuff. Falling into water from that height gives you a chance, assuming you don't impale yourself on a stanchion on your down - you can tell I am great fun at at parties.

Thanks.

Did you pick up any dead people, who had fallen less than ten metres, who had been attached to two separate harnesses, by two separate halyards, which had all been separately 'bounce' tested before leaving the deck?

Also, can you explain the physics of how I could fall in the water, or on to the ground, when I'd been working just centimetres from the masthead, and directly astern of it? I must admit that my assumption is that I would fall vertically, until I hit the boom: this would be the same afloat or ashore.