Going to windward obsession!

[LittleSister]

. . . The Thames barge and it derivatives showthatlargevessels can be handled with a small crew. . . .

it has been said that a Thames barge could be handled by a man, a boy and a dog. But that it had to be a bloody good dog!

Not being able to go to windward is for two kinds of people:
- people who don't mind motoring half the time, and
. . .

Most modern boats are perfectly capable of sailing to windward, but most modern skippers seem to use their engines to do so anyway!

Curious that as boats generally have become better at sailing to windward, the people sailing them have become less inclined to do so.

 

[Poignard]

Sailng barges are obviously intended to be able to work to windward.

That's why they have leeboards and fore-and-aft rig.

There are innumerable photos on the internet of barges close-hauled.

 

[Wansworth]

I remember seeing the track of a sailing ship trying and failing to round the Horn. I think this went on for over a month before they gave up.

It’s recorded that many ships just turned and went the other way

 

[Wansworth]

it has been said that a Thames barge could be handled by a man, a boy and a dog. But that it had to be a bloody good dog!




Most modern boats are perfectly capable of sailing to windward, but most modern skippers seem to use their engines to do so anyway!

Curious that as boats generally have become better at sailing to windward, the people sailing them have become less inclined to do so.

The downside of the dog was picking up a rope with poo on it

 

[LittleSister]

The downside of the dog was picking up a rope with poo on it

That's why the skipper needed a boy.

 

[Wansworth]

That's why the skipper needed a boy.

Checkout my contribution. A boat

 

[Daydream believer]

Checkout my contribution. A boat

I suggest that you had better get contributing then, because we are still waiting

 

[[194497]]

I think the Thames barges went pretty well to windward given their draft, cargo capacity, crew size and construction materials. But on the East coast there are times when you just wouldn't bother sailing to windward - for the middle few hours of a contrary tide that might reach 2-3 knots in the wrong direction, in a narrow channel, with safe anchorages all around, a non-perishable cargo and a rig that can be furled away in seconds, it's the most natural thing in the world to drop the anchor, do a few maintenance jobs and wait for the tide to turn. After all, if you're a year-round working sailor and you want to be able to use a fair wind and tide whenever you find one, you've got to rest and sleep sometimes.

 

[Malish]

Merlins are great boats. I sailed them quite a bit in my youth (I used to love the team racing). But they don't point particularly any higher than most other high-performance racing dinghies and they definitely don't plane on the beat. If you want the latter experience then try an Osprey in a good force 4 to 5.

Back to the subject of barges, from what I've read and been told they can work to windward and often would have. I'm very skeptical about the idea that they'd lay at anchor for days or weeks waiting for a tail wind. They made money delivering cargo from A to B. When you're at anchor you're not moving cargo so not earning.

One only has to go to a Thames Barge sailing match to appreciate that they certainly can sail to windward..

 

[Snowgoose-1]

It’s recorded that many ships just turned and went the other way

Bounty ?

 

[[194497]]

I read an account from the 1890s of a ship taking a cargo from the west coast of Australia to Melbourne. The wind was hard against them for week after week. They battled away but couldn't make any sustained progress, and in the end the skipper said f- it, turned around and sailed right around the world to reach Melbourne from the other direction.

 

[Poignard]

I think the Thames barges went pretty well to windward given their draft, cargo capacity, crew size and construction materials. But on the East coast there are times when you just wouldn't bother sailing to windward - for the middle few hours of a contrary tide that might reach 2-3 knots in the wrong direction, in a narrow channel, with safe anchorages all around, a non-perishable cargo and a rig that can be furled away in seconds, it's the most natural thing in the world to drop the anchor, do a few maintenance jobs and wait for the tide to turn. After all, if you're a year-round working sailor and you want to be able to use a fair wind and tide whenever you find one, you've got to rest and sleep sometimes.

That's OK until the owner wants to know why young so-and-so, who left at the same time as you, is back here discharging his cargo while there's still no sign of you!

 

[johnalison]

One only has to go to a Thames Barge sailing match to appreciate that they certainly can sail to windward..

If you sail sufficiently slowly to windward with a decent tide under you your COG can look pretty impressive. Thames barges are clearly efficient in their way, and it is inadvisable to press home your advantage on starboard tack when meeting one, but a Colchester smack would presumably leave one well behind.

 

[mjcoon]

The downside of the dog was picking up a rope with poo on it

Didn't the "tan" colour of the sails owe lots to rather dubious conditioning substances?

 

[Wansworth]

Didn't the "tan" colour of the sails owe lots to rather dubious conditioning substances?

I know nothing of this !

 

[justanothersailboat]

I know nothing of this !

You do have to have a boat to tan the sails. The great thing about polyester sails though... is you don't need to.

 

[mjcoon]

I know nothing of this !

I've been reading a long time... A quick Google revealed: "
Why do Thames barges have red sails?

Sail areas varied from 3,000–5,600 square feet (280–520 m2) depending on the size of the barge. The typical, rusty-red colour of the flax sails was due to the dressing used to treat the sails that were permanently aloft (traditionally made from red ochre, cod oil, urine and seawater).
"

 

[Puffin10032]

I've been reading a long time... A quick Google revealed: "
Why do Thames barges have red sails?

Sail areas varied from 3,000–5,600 square feet (280–520 m2) depending on the size of the barge. The typical, rusty-red colour of the flax sails was due to the dressing used to treat the sails that were permanently aloft (traditionally made from red ochre, cod oil, urine and seawater).
"

It always tickles me seeing tan sails on dinghies where the owner claims it looks "traditional" when it was only the sails of working boats that were semi-permanently attached which were thus treated. Another myth just like horns on Viking helmets.

 

[Wansworth]

The dye was called Cutch and the sail was cooked in the mixture Oria was brushed onto waterproof the canvas and preserve at the same time…..not sure what Cutchwas composed of

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The dye was called Cutch and the sail was cooked in the mixture Oria was brushed onto waterproof the canvas and preserve at the same time…..not sure what Cutchwas composed of

If it was the recipe above, the process must have stank horrifically. We had a biology teacher, who, in the interests of science, boiled some of her own piss to dryness. The whole science block had to be evacuated. I recall it very clearly after48 years. I daresay the sails stank for at least months after that.