coopec
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Go around the broker to buy a motor boat - to do or not to do?
- Thread starter JohnSmith1234
- Start date
Heckler
Well-Known Member
If you see it online then usually you have to register to see all the pix. A broker I know asks a seller registered with them who sells privately what is the name of the buyer. If that buyer has registered with him to view pix for example, he aggressively chases for his commission, arguing quite rightly that they have provided a service.
The issue of 8% commission which seems to be the norm is another one and perhaps gets peoples backs up!
To answer the question about buying directly. If the buyer has seen the boat separately to a brokers advert then no fee should be paid to the broker.
Just be aware however, the broker does safeguard the money while the transaction is going on and checks the provenance, ie gets the paperwork in order, especially important over here with VAT paid proof being important.
Imagine you see a boat, say yes, then how do you pay, is the boat free and clear? How do you physically do the deal Both on the boat, one signs the bill of sale, then you hand over a bag of cash! If not then one signs the bill of sale, effectively transferring it and the other promises to transfer the dosh? Hohum!
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
But also be aware that - in the standard setup - the broker is employed by the seller, works for the seller, is paid by the seller, has a duty of care to the seller and has no responsibility whatsoever to the buyer. If I was every in the position of buying £1m for a boat I would have someone qualified working on my behalf as well. Otherwise it would be like buying a £1m house and relying on the seller's estate agent (not even a lawyer) to do all the paperwork.
Resolution
Well-Known Member
Fair comment.
JohnSmith1234
New Member
To bump this thread, yeah, obviously I would expect both the buyer (me) and the seller to use lawyers for the transaction, I am not delusional. And surveying done as well, which is crucial.
All I am saying is bypassing the broker and saving 5-10% of their cut, but of course having lawyers and surveyors participate.
I am also a bit irritated by some of the self-righteous responses of people here. Did not expect a yachting forum to have left-wing-tainted commentators. Yes, I can afford the boat, yes , i ask a reasonable question. Nobody in the right mind would not at least investigate how to save a good hundred thousand on a yacht purchase... Not even talking about asking the obscene questions of how I earned my money. Stick to counting yours please.
All I am saying is bypassing the broker and saving 5-10% of their cut, but of course having lawyers and surveyors participate.
I am also a bit irritated by some of the self-righteous responses of people here. Did not expect a yachting forum to have left-wing-tainted commentators. Yes, I can afford the boat, yes , i ask a reasonable question. Nobody in the right mind would not at least investigate how to save a good hundred thousand on a yacht purchase... Not even talking about asking the obscene questions of how I earned my money. Stick to counting yours please.
pvb
Well-Known Member
I think this thread has shown that most of us are honest.
Rappey
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread !
I Googled estate agent fees (uk) and saw 0.75 to 3%.
Yacht brokerage fees quoted at 8 to 10 %.
Is it harder to sell a boat than a house ?
Is there more to it ?
I Googled estate agent fees (uk) and saw 0.75 to 3%.
Yacht brokerage fees quoted at 8 to 10 %.
Is it harder to sell a boat than a house ?
Is there more to it ?
RJJ
Well-Known Member
It's not left-wing. And I write this as fully-paid-up Ayn Rand / Von Mises toting libertarian.
It's the way boat sales mostly happen. Mostly, sellers go via brokers and are contracted to them; if you ask a seller to cut out the broker, you are asking them to breach a contract. There's nothing left-wing about freely-negotiated contracts, in fact a libertarian would assert their freedom to enforce it at gunpoint if so agreed by both parties.
You made a couple of other questionable remarks about "paying for something you can get for free". Well, if you saw the brokers advert, he has already discharged his service. Also, in your business experience I suspect (unless Mummy gave you the money?) you know that skilled salesmen (and at your end of the market they are skilled and lawyered-up) are compensated not just for the buyer they nurse along, but for the five potential buyers that walked away plus the thirty window-shoppers they entertained.
You can definitely dodge brokers' fees entirely by buying privately. I don't know how you will find a good choice of boats to view, with well-presented details and someone willing to show you around...because most sellers use brokers. Best of luck either way.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
He's posted this in PBO. He's called "John Smith". And he's got £2m to spend but knows nothing about the business of buying or selling boats. Must be a wind up by a newly re-named ex-forumite... 
Where's the popcorn.
Where's the popcorn.
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James_Calvert
Well-Known Member
Curious time to resurrect this thread.
How has he still got the £2M to spend?
How has he still got the £2M to spend?
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JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
The assumption that left-wingness is a taint associated with honesty is an interesting one.
pandos
Well-Known Member
inducing a breach of contract (getting owner to deal with him directly having seen the boat with the broker) isn't this an actionable wrong... with a bit of luck he will succeed and a Broker will sue his A**!He's posted this in PBO. He's called "John Smith". And he's got £2m to spend but knows nothing about the business of buying or selling boats. Must be a wind up by a newly re-named ex-forumite...
Where's the popcorn.
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
What a distasteful thread.
However, a potential buyer who acts to deceive is a buyer I would rather avoid at all costs, and one who I have direct experience of in regard to selling a property - he didn't like it when, having attempted to move the goalposts after he & I had agreed a fair price, and without a survey or any other justifiable reason to change the price, I simply withdrew from the sale he had previously agreed to and then refused to sell to him at all. I figured out that if was prepared to do this pre-survey, he would definitely try it on later at the time for the exchange of contracts. He was mighty miffed, and learnt an important lesson that day.
Similarly a seller who is willing to breach his contractual obligations entered into in good faith with his Broker is one who will also mis-represent his boat, so I would rather not buy from him.
However, a potential buyer who acts to deceive is a buyer I would rather avoid at all costs, and one who I have direct experience of in regard to selling a property - he didn't like it when, having attempted to move the goalposts after he & I had agreed a fair price, and without a survey or any other justifiable reason to change the price, I simply withdrew from the sale he had previously agreed to and then refused to sell to him at all. I figured out that if was prepared to do this pre-survey, he would definitely try it on later at the time for the exchange of contracts. He was mighty miffed, and learnt an important lesson that day.
Similarly a seller who is willing to breach his contractual obligations entered into in good faith with his Broker is one who will also mis-represent his boat, so I would rather not buy from him.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Spot on. No idea what the OP's motives are other than 'saving 75-150k' which he wouldn't.
lydiamight
Well-Known Member
With the last boat that I sold the Broker wanted an exclusive deal. Fine by me, but I insisted on putting a clause into the Brokerage agreement that should a member of my yacht make the purchase then no commission would be payable.
Broker reluctantly agreed and, guess what? Purchaser was a yacht club member that had heard on the Club "grapevine" that my boat was for sale.
One very unhappy broker but it did save me £3,600 in fees
Broker reluctantly agreed and, guess what? Purchaser was a yacht club member that had heard on the Club "grapevine" that my boat was for sale.
One very unhappy broker but it did save me £3,600 in fees
skipmac
Well-Known Member
And that is perfectly valid, legal and ethical. One can request any exemptions or exceptions in a contract in advance and the broker can either agree or not. Since the broker in your case did agree and it sounds like your buyer legitimately came in under the exception then all is good.
One thing that I was told when I was in the business, broker fees on large and/or expensive yachts are negotiable and usually aren't the full 10% paid on sales in the low to mid six figure range.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Likewise, when I was thinking of listing my Jouster with Boatshed, they proposed a flat rate fee of about 15% of what I hoped to get for her, which wasn't very much. That seemed entirely fair to me, as they were in for the same amount of work as something much more expensive.
